[Ep. 372] So This Is Why You’re Broke with Melissa Jean-Baptiste

Jessica

Hello and welcome back to the more money podcast. I’m your host, Jessica Moorhouse. And this is episode 372. And the second to last episode of season 16 of the show. Sad. Are we sad? No, honestly, I’m, I mean, the maybe that sounds bad. No, I’m sad that is ending. Sure. I mean, this has been a really great season, I believe. I mean, I always think each season gets better and better. But honestly, and maybe you’re like, me, too. I just, you know, it’s summertime, guys, the weather’s nice. I want to go outside and try to go to a coffee shop and write my book or read a book or just take a nap, you know, just need a little bit of a break to you know, recuperate. So I’m more energized to get into season 17, which will launch sometime in September. But enough about what’s going to happen in season 17. And what I’m going to be up to in the summer, which honestly isn’t anything crazy. I’m just gonna be staying in my whole the basement in the dark, writing my book and then visiting family over July and enjoying some Vancouver nature. And I just want to do all the things this year I want to go kayaking, I might even want to go hiking, which is crazy, because I hate hiking. And of course I want to do one of my favourite things whenever I’m in town and go to the Port Moody breweries because what’s not like how fun is it that there’s all these breweries right next to each other, and you could just brewery hop, how fun so fun anyways, again, nothing about me. Let’s talk about this episode. Let’s talk about the wonderful guests I have on this episode, which is Melissa John Baptist, you may actually already know her under a different name millennial in debt. She’s really big on Instagram and Tiktok. And she has a brand new book or her first book really out, and it is called. So this is why I’m broke money lessons on financial literacy, passive income and generational wealth, which I’m so so thrilled that it’s out. It’s a great book, awesome cover. And believe me, I say this because, listen, I have a lot of the books Oh, no, I have all the books that have been featured on this show. And you know, sometimes the covers are lacking. It’s not the author’s fault, as I know, you do not get a final say it is the publisher that they do their thing. But yeah, Melissa knocked out of the park is a very cool, it’s just a cool cover. But it’s also a really good book inside. So you know, don’t judge a book by its cover, but also a great cover as well. So we are going to chat about just her experience, being in debt, of course, and trying to pay it down on a teacher’s salary, which is obviously very difficult because teachers are not paid nearly enough for all the amazing work that they do. And then we also talked about how she was able to transition from being a high school teacher to then being you know, a very popular personal finance content creator. And also making sure that the content she creates is valuable is actually educational. Unlike a lot of the stuff that you will find online. She’s trying I mean, it makes sense. She comes from the background of being a teacher, she wants to make sure she’s doing a good job, and she does an incredible job. So we are going to talk about all the things in this episode. So without further ado, let’s get to that interview with Melissa. Welcome. Listen to the more money Podcast. I’m so excited to have you on the show.

Melissa

Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to chat today.

Jessica

I love your background. By the way, no one can see this, obviously. But that’s beautiful. It’s like a forest to greenery. situation. I love that.

Melissa

Thank you. It’s all fake. I really keep things alive.

Jessica

I didn’t expect it to be like a live wall. Flower split. Hey, that looks amazing. I love that. Thank you. And I’m super excited to have you on the show. I know you’ve I mean, you’ve been a very big presence online for a number of years. But now you have a book, which I think is the best title. I think it’s hilarious. So this is why I’m broke. Money lessons on financial literacy, passive income and generational wealth. So excited for you. So let’s kind of let’s let’s start, let’s kind of backup for anyone who’s new to you. You know, I know part of your story is you started as a teacher, you had some of course student loan debt, and you were able to tackle like $100,000 worth of debt on teacher salary. And that in and of itself is a huge accomplishment because we all know teachers are not paid enough for all of the hard work that they do. So do you want to kind of share a little bit? What kind of thrust you into you know, being a teacher, and then kind of entering this personal finance world? Yes.

Melissa

So I am a first-generation Asian American, I’m also the eldest of three, which means I kind of had to do everything first. And my siblings would, you know, see, like, would she do well, or did she not do so? Well, so I really kind of set the curve and learning all of these things. And so, I was the first person to go to college and I was like, Okay, I’m doing all the things I’m supposed to do. I got an English degree. I’m like, What am I supposed to As an English degree, I like to write, like, maybe I’ll be a teacher that feels like the right way to go. And so I was teaching for the first three years after I graduated in 2010. And in 2013, I was turning 25. And it felt like, I think I should buy a house, right? That’s the next step in being an adult, like buy a house. At that time, I didn’t even have a savings account. So I look back at that. I’m like, You are so delusional girl. Are you? Are you,

Jessica

you know, precious, 25-year-old, we were all like, I’m gonna do this. You’re like, you have no idea how the world works?

Melissa

No, I Oh, definitely. Did I know how real estate works? Yeah. And so I reached out to a real estate agent. And he was just like, okay, so we were going through the pre-approval, and I get approved for $100,000, which I live in New York, that can buy you maybe a Barbie doll house, and you’re not going to get much with 100,000. And so I was really upset. And when we started talking about, you know, why wasn’t I approved for more, he introduced the concept of a debt-to-income ratio, which I had never heard of before. And I was like, Well, I pay all my bills on time, I have pretty decent credit, I’ve never missed a payment. And he’s just like, well, you have a lot of debt, and you don’t make you know, enough money, you’re a liability to the bank, essentially. So here’s like, the best thing for you to do is to call your loan provider and you know, see if you can pay down and celebrate that debt to be approved for a higher amount. And so I call my loan provider. And to my surprise, although I only borrowed $50,000. at that current time, I had about

Jessica

$80,000 in debt, it inflated from 50 to 80. And how many years?

Melissa

Three years? Oh, three years? And I was like, What did what am I doing wrong, like what’s going on. And essentially, what the loan provider told me was that I was on an interest-only payment plan. And so I was paying about $200 a month, but they were adding in $400 in interest every month. So my payment wasn’t covering the amount that I borrowed. It wasn’t even covering the interest that was being added. And I was up $20,000. By the time I even realized that I was not making a dent in this debt. Like I thought I was I was I was truly devastated. And that’s what really started my personal finance journey. Because I wanted to buy a home, I wanted to move out of my parents house, I didn’t want to have this debt for the next 30 or 40 years. And so that’s really what opened my eyes to what money could be used for what I could do with money. And it wasn’t just like, you get paid, you pay your bills, and that’s there. It’s an actual tool to build wealth and the tool to change the trajectory of your life. And so that was the moment where I was like, Oh, I have to I have to do something different.

Jessica

Yeah. And so when I mean, I hear from a lot of people who have similar backgrounds to you, or just anyone who’s like, oh, there’s a moment where they’re like, I need to get my act together. That’s one very important realization, but then the next is like, what is your next step? So for you, what did that mean? Was it like, Okay, we’re gonna just focus on debt, or, you know, where did you start?

Melissa

So at that time, I really didn’t know too much about my like I said, I didn’t even have a savings account. I was really going in and teaching myself the basics and learning. Okay, well, if I want to pay off this debt in two years, in three years, what are the things I’m going to have to do? What am I going to have to learn? What am I going to have to understand? And that’s when I learned about sinking funds? That was one of the first things that popped up when it was like, Oh, how do you pay off debt quickly? How do you save money? And I was like, What is this? What is a sinking fund what it I don’t know what that means. But essentially, it’s a savings account that you are using to pay off something specific, right? So you’re not creating new forms of debt, you have this chunk of money that you’re adding to monthly, daily, weekly, whatever you whatever pace you want to set. And then when the time comes to, you know, spend or buy that thing, you use that sinking fund. And so what I did was, I created an annual sinking fund to tackle one loan at a time, because I was just overwhelmed. I’m like, I cannot pay off $80,000 I don’t know how much more money is going to be added by the time I’m done. But I need to take this piece by piece step by step. And so I on every January, it was my like, New Year’s moment, every January, I would say okay, I’m going to tackle this loan this year. And let’s say it was $12,000 for the year, so I needed to save $12,000 For in December to pay off that debt. And so on a teacher salary, it’s definitely a little hard. But I started doing side hustles and starting to try to incorporate passive income into my day-to-day and that really helped to fund the sinking fund to pay off the debt.

Jessica

So tell me a little bit more about I guess the side hustles the passive income we hear those terms a lot. And it’s funny because it’s like now it’s normal to have a second or third job so what did that look like? Because also like I assume being a teacher yes, you’re stuck with that salary, but that’s like that’s a full-time job. How were you able to incorporate other kind of streams of income?

Melissa

Yes. So in my A 25 was such a big a big year right for everyone at 25 I was like I can do everything I can do anything. I don’t care. I don’t need to sleep I don’t need to eat I

Jessica

don’t need time for the day is when we had that kind of energy.

Melissa

No What I was thinking, I was like, I’m going to tutor, I’m going to walk dogs, I’m going to do all these things. And honestly, after about like, a month and a half, I’m like, I don’t want to do any of these things I understand they’re bringing in money, but the return on interest just wasn’t doing it for me. And so I really had to sit down and understand, what are my skills? What am I already doing? What is going to have a better ROI. And that’s when I started actually selling my lesson plans and unit plans. I’m like, I’m already a teacher, I’m already creating them. I already you know, know how to plan for a year for a month. And so I started selling those. And I made about $10,000 annually, which helped tremendously in funding the sinking funds every year.

Jessica

That is so smart. I mean, yeah, you hear a lot about and you see all these blog posts, like 50 ideas for, you know, side hustles. But sometimes it’s about what am I already doing? So don’t have to do more work. And then would people actually want this lesson plans? Of course, you’re saving those teachers money or time so that they can maybe free up their time to maybe do another side hustle to make more money? Right? Yeah, exactly pleasing. So you were able to continue to do that consistently for a good few years? Like, how long did it actually take take you to when you started to paying off all of your student loans

Melissa

yet? So it took me five years, I started focusing in in 2013. And I made my final student loan payment in December of 2018. So I don’t want anyone to think because a lot of times on the internet, right?

Jessica

It’s like, eight months. Yeah. Like how, though? That’s impossible, you know? Yeah, I like hearing the realistic stories of it took me five years. Because when you even think about your like five years isn’t too long. When you’re paying off debt, it feels like forever?

Melissa

Yes, it definitely does. Especially if you want to, like, do other things or go on vacation or just like, I gotta get done, I gotta get

Jessica

done. So paid off, paid it off in five years. I’m curious, when you were finally able to make that final payment? What was your, you know, thought process? What? What are you going to do? Now I hear from so many people who are in that like debt repayment mode for years and years and years, it’s difficult to know what to do after because your mind has just been on that one goal. And often some people that don’t make another goal or don’t, you know, kind of think of the next plan they can get back into debt. I mean, usually was like consumer debt. So I’m not sure about student loans. But you know, so So for you, what did you want to accomplish next? Was it like, Hey, we’re going to kind of use the same strategy, so we can save up to buy a home.

Melissa

So I actually, which is pretty crazy. Everyone’s like you’re going into anymore, I actually did buy my first home, I closed in January of 2019. So I was only debt free for like 30 days. But it is a different type of debt. There is there is something about knowing like, Oh, I know how to tackle this now. And I know how to do it in a better way that’s not going to make me feel ashamed or embarrassed. Because while it’s paying off my student loans, I kind of felt like, well, I got myself in this situation. And I’m going to talk to people about it because I’m scared or I feel embarrassed. So definitely, it was like, Okay, well, I’m gonna buy the house. This is this is what I’m going to do. I know it’s a new type of debt. But it also taught me how to manage better. And so I was able to really start investing more. And that was something I wanted to do for so long, and really try to invest not just like 401k, which is super important, but also the IRAs and all of these other things. Like I want to learn how to grow my money and build that generational wealth outside of just saving and my employer sponsored plan. So that was, that was my thing, I bought a home and I really started investing more money.

Jessica

Amazing. I know, there’s also one part in your book, which I can definitely relate to, which is so interesting. You mentioned that you’re able to, you know, pay off your debt, and then it got picked up by a big media publication. And it kind of went viral, which is, you know, the dream, very exciting. But then there’s also the reality of it. And again, I think that’s a really important to talk about very exciting that you got more eyeballs on your story, but a they didn’t include the your real salary. They kind of miss quoted that and then you read the comments and the comments. Were kind of crazy. How were you able to? Well, I guess, you know, because it’s to celebrate a celebratory moment for you to be like I’m debt free. But then to kind of hear, you know, the critics or people with their opinions. How did that how did you I guess, deal with that? Because I think that’s the other thing, whether you’re a public figure or not, there’s always critics out there, especially if you’re working towards a goal, or you’ve just finished a goal. People are like, Yeah, but you didn’t do it this way. So it doesn’t count.

Melissa

Yes, that. And it’s so interesting, because I’ve never hid my money store. I’ve always been very open and candid about it. Because I think it’s important to talk about money and share different experiences. And so when that moment happened, I was like, Oh, my God is so exciting. You know, the confusion and then misinterpretation, really, it brought back those feelings of shame. And I think a lot of times that’s what keeps people from talking about money, which is such an important conversation, but I felt embarrassed. I was like, oh my god, well, I guess you know, I didn’t do it the way that they thought should have been, you should have been done. But you know, I was like I still did, it is still something phenomenal and amazing. And so I think I really forced myself to stop reading the comments. So if anyone’s listening, don’t read the comments, just don’t, you know, enjoy the time with your friends and family. Because the comments will always just have something to say. And I think when it got re-released, because it was like the initial release, and then it got re-released again, a couple of months ago, I was like, I’m not, I’m not going to allow negative thoughts and things that people have to say, really take away from all the good that my story has done, and all the benefits and how it’s helped other people to really, you know, get a hold of their money. So I think it’s really important to kind of just keep keep those comments as far away from you as possible, and just really know that you’re doing the best you can and you’re doing what works for you. And you’re helping other people really find their their step and what works for them. Did you

Jessica

kind of experience any of that while you were paying off debt, like I hear from a lot of people, when they start, you know, getting into personal finance and wanting to you know, be more frugal and save and pay off debt and invest? They sometimes there’s kind of a disconnect with their current, you know, friends or family that just don’t get it? How do you stay motivated or in it, when you know, it seems like your entire world, they don’t understand what you’re doing. Like it can be hard to motivate yourself when you don’t feel like you’re supported.

Melissa

Absolutely. And I think at the beginning of my personal finance journey, I felt that way, I felt alienated again, like the shame and just the fear of people judging, but I think it’s really, really important. And you can find that in so many different ways to find a community of support, even if it’s not, you know, a friend or family. The internet has gotten really interesting with personal finance. And I really think that it’s grown tremendously from where it’s It started when I was 25 years old. So I think it’s so important to find that community who, even if they’re not going through the same exact steps, they understand what you’re going through, or they understand what you’re doing. And when you share they they’re willing to listen and ask questions and not kind of say, Oh, why are you always talking about penny-pinching? Because that did that did happen? When I was paying off the first year student loans. I was like, Oh, I can’t go to brunch. I can’t do this. And they’re like, you’re so obsessed with your debt. It’s just like, Yeah, but it’s kind of really big thing for me right now. So it’s so important to find your community, find your people so that you can share without feeling that you’re being judged.

Jessica

Yeah, what I’ve found over the years, and it was just talking to a bunch of people was no one will understand your financial situation more than you. And so they only see kind of your behaviors, your actions, and it may just not make sense to them. But I think the other thing is, if you do feel like there is a safe space, or some people are you know, receptive that can aim, you know, you can help someone else by sharing because they may have never encountered someone who was open about talking to about money. And that might be their introduction. So don’t be afraid. But then also be aware, if you recognize someone’s not into it, then just limit what you share. Because they may just be a negative, they you know, they may demotivate you and we don’t want that you want to stay on track. Yeah, so I love you know, at the beginning of your book, you talk about how you want to write this book. So people would wouldn’t make some of your mistakes, or they wouldn’t have because you achieved a lot of amazing things over the years. And you said, you know, I don’t I don’t want you to wish this on anybody. Do you want to kind of share a little bit more about what you meant by that? Like was it just you’ve worked so hard, long hours paying off debt, it was very intense, you don’t you want people to have an easier time, but achieve still being able to achieve their goals?

Melissa

Yes, I specifically said like, I don’t want you to do what I did, or I don’t want you to have the success I have, I want you to be better. Like I want you to be 100 times better. And I say that, especially for my two younger brothers who I know they’re like, we’re not babies, but they’re big brothers, I don’t want them to take the huge student loans, I don’t want them to have to side hustle for hours and hours on it, I want them to of course learn how to grow their money and build their wealth, but I want them to have an easier path to do so. And I feel like my journey was filled with a lot of gaps that I didn’t understand things I didn’t know things I talked about how I sold my Netflix stock, the first Netflix stock that I ever bought to buy a couch, right? Because I didn’t understand the idea of long term investing and what that really meant and what that looked like. So I don’t want, you know, people just stumble into things back that I want them to know mindfully like, Oh, I’m going to take these steps and I’m going to get this end goal. But I don’t have to do all these like little mistakes and errors because I now know I have someone who’s taught me or helped guide me through, you know, the pitfalls that they went through. So don’t be like me be better.

Jessica

I love that. So with you know all the things that you experienced, and I know lots of this is incorporated in your book. What are some of the things that you want people to avoid doing or dislike mistakes that you made that you just don’t want anyone else to fall into?

Melissa

Yes, a really big one and it I was ashamed and embarrassed in the beginning but now I’m just like, it’s funny. A really big one when it comes to investing. A lot of times people are like I want the big wins really quick. I want to be Be A Millionaire tomorrow. And I think it’s so important to understand that sometimes it’s a bit of a slow burn when you’re building the foundation, and it will come, but you want to do the research and you don’t want to just go into any fad or just like, Oh, I see that, you know, this company is doing amazing. I’m gonna buy $10,000 worth of stock in their company and like, wait, you know, like, let’s think about that. And so I share a little in the book, how, when I first started investing, I would invest in any companies that I liked. I’m like, Oh, I like this company. I like this company. And I remember one time I bought a stock, and I was like, Okay, this company is gonna do great. And then a direct competitor came out with a really like, transformative product and kind of tanked the other company and I lost so much money. And I was just like, oh, so this or that. I don’t, I won’t be rich quickly, is what you’re saying. So I think it’s really important for people to understand, especially if you’re starting your money journey are starting to look into investing, it doesn’t have to be quick hits, or putting in a bunch of money at all, at one time, I started with $121 per check going into a 403 b, which is like the equivalent of a 401 K retirement plan at for teachers. And I’m like, that’s grown to a six-figure portfolio over the last 13 years. So it’s okay to take some time, it’s okay to research and learn and build slowly. So you don’t have to, you know, face the consequences of losing all your money because a brand no longer exists.

Jessica

I think I’m curious too, since you have such a big presence online, especially like your Tik Tok your Instagram. I feel like a lot of those narratives are perpetuated online. And that’s it’s complicated. Like it’s a complicated situation, because it’s like, there’s a lot of great people like yourself online giving some really quality content. And there is probably 10 times more people just telling you buy this stock, and you’ll get rich tomorrow 10x X cetera, et cetera. How do you, you know, navigate that, like, it’s, it’s honestly, it’s, uh, breaks my heart. Whenever I talk to a young person, they’re like, Well, I saw this online data, and I’m like, Oh, my God, no, like, don’t don’t do that. Don’t do that. But if that’s all they see, they may think that that is valuable information, they shouldn’t take advantage.

Melissa

I agree. I will say it is definitely harder to compete out. Yeah, companies that compete with the flashy or they’re really cool and sexy. Like, you know, investment of the day or investment of the week, and you have me over her, like, invest in your 401 K, you know, put money aside for 30 years. But that’s really why I take my content so seriously, in a way that I want it to be accessible. I want it to be fun. I want it to be eye-catching, not because it’s like, Oh, you like dancing on the internet? Like, I guess so. But honestly, as a teacher, as a former teacher, I know exactly what students are going to stop scrolling and pay attention to and I know what they’re going to ask questions about. So when I create that content, I keep it you know, I keep Gen Z in mind, I keep younger millennials I know Millennials are getting a little older. It’s okay. I keep younger millennials in mind. And I know Mike, because I think about well what’s gonna make me stop scrolling, right? Because if I see someone say you can make $10,000 in five minutes, you’re like, Well, I

Jessica

want to know how to do that. Yeah, I

Melissa

want to know, you know, be curious, but it’s like, well, no, right? We’re gonna know. Exactly, we’re gonna practice discernment. So when I use like, the turning sounds, or when I present money, information, you know, with like, a fancy, I don’t even know like whatever’s trending. It’s because I want it to stop you in your tracks. But also, I want the information to be valuable and useful and realistic for you to set up. You know, I love hearing 16, 17, 18 year olds talking about they opened up an IRA. I’m like, yes, yeah, that’s exactly what I want to hear. So it’s competitive in the internet space, but it’s very important to spread that realistic nature of what money is and what money can do.

Jessica

Yeah, yeah. And I think I think the reason that it’s a bit different than prior decades further, was always that snake oil sales salesman who’s selling you, you know, something’s, it’s different. Because A, it’s all over the place. And I think the one thing that I realized is younger people doing this. And so if you find yourself, you know, scrolling and there’s a peer that’s telling you this, you’re more likely to kind of trust them, as opposed to someone who’s like 20 years old, or wearing like a sleazy suit or something like that. Yeah. Now, it’s like, I don’t know, this guy seems pretty nice. I think he might be legitimate.

Melissa

Exactly. And it’s so it’s very tricky. And that’s why in the book I definitely mentioned, you’re like, Okay, these are the things that are interesting that you can invest in, but I’m like, I’m not your financial adviser. Right? So I can’t tell you invest in this. So if you do want someone to do that, seek a professional. I’m like, you don’t need to listen to anybody on the internet, but go to speak to a professional who’s not trying to sell you something or who’s not trying to put your money at risk, right. I’m very risk-averse. So I like for my investments to be as safe as possible, because there’s always some risk, but I don’t want to lose $10,000 In five minutes, that’s for sure.

Jessica

No, yeah, exactly. Talking about like, make $10,000 to have about losing 10,005 minutes. And that is more likely to happen if you take some of these people online. The other thing too is like there’s no consequences for people online saying whatever they want, there’s nothing. So you got to be careful, like it really is. Consumer beware, because you won’t be able, like they can close their account, and you’ll never be able to find them again. So just be careful, that’s for sure. I just, I feel like this is a topic I just bring up so often, because it’s just it’s never-ending. And I feel like it exploded in 2020. And we just need to be so much more careful. But with that, you really do go and appreciate this, you go through every single possible thing that I could even think of going through your book of what people should know, when it comes to their money and things that like I just had a conversation with someone. But you know, he’s talking about estate planning in your book. And that’s something that, you know, I tried to talk about on the podcast, it’s not sexy or exciting. I get it. So important, though, right? You keep on you know, seeing all these celebrities die with no will. And you’re like, gosh, that’s going to be a big mess. Do you want to kind of talk about why, you know, certain things like that, where you got to kind of fit them through the more exciting stuff are so vital. Like, I just had a conversation with someone being like, Oh, I asked him like, do you ever will be like, No, won’t it just automatically come to me if my partner dies? I’m like, no, no, no, no, you need

Melissa

Yes, I agree. So when these conversations because I have them with my friends, I like brunch, right? And I’m just, again, I’m like, Yes, we have to like you have kids, you have a hook once you get a will. Right, exactly. And so even with my parents, it’s always like a little tug of war. Um, but it’s so important. Because if you want to prepare, right, and so finance is not just oh, I have $10. In my checking account, there are so many aspects that go into our financial landscape, right? We want to think like, think about your money as a landscape. It’s not just one thing. It’s not one savings account. And we don’t think about all the different things that we have in our financial landscape. And so I speak about how one of my friends who passed away, he used to always say, whenever we have a conversation, it’s like, I don’t have anything, what am I going to leave behind? Yeah, and he was so young. And then I remember his mother and his sister saying, Oh, we don’t know how to get access to his checking or savings account, or we don’t know how to do this. And we don’t know how to do that. And it’s just like, it’s unfortunate, because in times of tragedy, or in times where life is just really being unfair and unkind in the moment, you don’t want to have to think about oh, man, how am I going to, you know, gain access to this or what’s gonna happen to this, you want to have a plan, and that’s all estate planning is it’s not, you don’t have to be wealthy to do it, you don’t have to have a million dollars in your account to do it. It’s just a plan to prepare for your loved ones, right. And I always put it this way, it’s like you’re leaving this plan behind for the people you love most to make, you know, you no longer being here, a lot easier for them. And so not sexy, but such a vital conversation. I think the more we talk about it, the more people will you know, be open to having the conversation. Because when I was younger, I didn’t want to talk about it with my parents, either. I want to talk about that. My dad like, we have to. Yeah, like we have to do it. So it’s just a plan. That’s how we want to think about it.

Jessica

Absolutely. And yeah, I feel like overall, your book is really talking about things in a ways. Like, here’s how you can help yourself and also others and I that’s how I kind of think about finance, too. It’s like how can we make life easier because life is so freakin hard? Right? And so estate planning is one thing you do talk a lot about debt and credit. Do you want to kind of talk a little bit about what are some key things? I mean, there’s so much that you learned on your journey? What can you share it for other people who are right in the thick of it and are feeling you know, that debt fatigue or just having a rough time?

Melissa

Yes, I think a lot of times, especially when we’re like, Okay, I have this huge mountain of debt to pay off that we think that we are stuck and doing it this one way is the only way or having to get it done in five years or three years, whatever. But the thing is, your life changes all the time. So your your debt payoff plan can change, your budget can change, it does not have to look the same every day doesn’t have to look the same every month. And so I think that’s what I struggled with in the beginning, because I started following the 5030 20 budget. And I was just like, okay, it just works for me. I like it. And then as I started paying off more debt and started having more money for savings, or I wanted to start investing, I’m like, this budget doesn’t work for me, but it worked before I don’t know why can’t do and I got frustrated. And I want it I’m like I don’t want a budget anymore. Right? And so that’s the thing, like I don’t want to pay off my debt or I don’t want to focus on this because it’s we’re frustrated we’re hitting a wall. But the thing is, we don’t wear the same clothes every day, right? We don’t eat the same thing every day. We don’t go to the same places every day. So our finances can also change and shift and look different and so if you’re on this debt payoff journey, and you’ve been you know, following this path and I’m like okay, this is not really working for me or I’m not gonna get to this in five years. I’m not going to get to this in three years. It’s okay to adjust we you’re not trying to compete or keep up with anybody online. It’s really and it’s Instagram really makes us think like debt payoff. It’s like oh my god, I paid this off and I bought this like car are at this mansion, or it’s amazing. Sometimes it’s like, okay, this, I thought was gonna take two years, it took me three years I got there, it’s still amazing, I’m gonna go out for pizza. Like, it can look like that right. And so I think a lot of times we focus on punishing ourselves if we don’t hit those goals, or if we don’t do it this certain way, and we don’t need to our personal journey, our personal finance journey is our own. And life is going to remind us that we can’t always plan for every single thing. So if you need to adjust your timeline, or if you need to adjust how much money you can put towards your debt this month, versus what you put in last month versus what you want to put in in two months. It’s okay, right, you want to give yourself grace. And I wish I had known that at 25, I’d have been a lot gentler on myself. And I just want anyone listening now to know that it is okay to make adjustments to your debt payoff journey.

Jessica

100%. I mean, that’s often what I hear from people who I’ve interviewed, and they’ve achieved like, you know, I paid off all my debt, or I reached this net worth or, you know, retired early, and they hit those milestones by a very early age or short period of time. Most of them are regretted, most of them are regret not taking more time or not spending, you know, just like enjoying life a little bit more. And it’s like, yeah, who can be on like this really strict diet, if your finances for that amount of time, like that actually isn’t healthy that could. I know lots of people, you know, they have issues with their mental health after because they’ve neglected it for so long. They’re focused on this. So like you said, it’s so important to remember that it is your personal finance journey, and you’re the only one competing with yourself. You don’t have to look at you know, it doesn’t make any sense for you to base or use someone else’s benchmark for your life, right? Because you have no idea what’s going on. And you don’t know if they’re happy or not.

Melissa

Correct. And I think about like some of the early early early finance information that I was adjusting, or that I was like repeating myself, and I’m just like, there’s no way I was operating from such a place of scarcity. I was like, I’m not going to get my nails done. I’m not going to Starbucks, I’m not going to brunch. And then so when I look back at when I was 2526 27, I’m like, All I had was this debt payoff, right? Because I wasn’t going to a friend’s birthday parties. And I wasn’t, you know, and enjoying life with the people I love. And so I think it’s so important to put yourself in your budget, even if you’re on your debt payoff journey. Even if it’s only $100 $50 You need to spend some of your money on you and on things you enjoy and value. Because when you look back in 10 years, it’s like, yeah, I paid off his debt and okay.

Jessica

Yeah, now, yeah, some other things you need to work through, like, wow, I don’t know, like, I know, lots of people who and I used to be like this, and I still work through it, too, when you are living in that place of scarcity, and you’re just getting used to saying no, no, no, because that was the advice was like, say no to shopping and lattes and avocados, etc, etc. When you’re in a place of now you’re able to afford saying yes, you know, it’s not a switch that you can flick. And it’s easy to say, yes, you’re gonna feel that guilt and that shame for a long time. And so if you can, like that would be one thing that I wish I would have done and gave myself grace, just like yourself, is telling myself, it’s okay to go out this one night and spend some money, even if it means you’re going to bump the date to hit that milestone by a month, you like the grand scheme of things years go by, you’re not even going to worry about it. So don’t just isolate yourself from the world to achieve this goal. When you can have both you can achieve your goal. Maybe it’ll take you a little bit longer, but then you can actually enjoy your life and not just be on a strict diet that will you know, there will be consequences later on.

Melissa

Absolutely. I 100% agree my therapist is all the time because I’m like, Oh, I don’t want to the first I remember the first moment or big thing that outside of buying my home after I pay off my debt. My friend or my best friends is getting married. And she asked me to be a bridesmaid and I really went into my therapy session. I was just like, I don’t know if I can afford like I just thinking about money and not thinking about like, hello, one of your best friends is getting married, like what are you thinking? So it’s definitely not a switch. It takes a lot of work and you just really want to make sure that you’re always incorporating yourself and your finances.

Jessica

Absolutely. Now I know there’s I mean, there’s so many great things in your book. So I encourage everyone to grab a copy but before I let you go is there anything that you would like to leave listeners with some, you know, food for thought or just you know, especially to you’re now in this new position, being a financial educator? What are some things that you’d like to leave people with?

Melissa

I always, always, always, always whenever I speak with a client on the internet, I always want people to remember that your personal finance journey is yours. And it does not have to look like anybody else’s. It doesn’t have to look like mine. It doesn’t have to look like your favorite influencer on the internet and it is okay to unplug. And it’s okay to pause it is okay to stop and think right it’s like okay, is this no longer what I value with my finances? Or is this something new that I value with my finances so it is alright to make your own decisions and adjustments based off what’s going on in life right and we have this thing where we want to be like this superhero like no, I have to do this. I have to know we could just pause it is your job. So please, please, please remember if you’re feeling frustrated, or if you’re feeling overwhelmed, it’s okay to unplug, pause, stop, think about it and regroup, write, come back tomorrow, come back in a few days, it’s okay, the process will still be yours to adjust and modified.

Jessica

Absolutely. And life is long. You know, you don’t have to achieve everything in your 20s. Like, that’s the one thing as someone in my 30s I’m like, why are all these goals to hit this before? 30 It’s like, you’re still alive. And life continues at 30. And it’s, it’s fine. Like, I remember, I tell people this all time, like, I remember turning 30 Like, oh, that’s it. Like, nothing changed. My life was the same. So you don’t have to create these crazy timelines. Give yourself a few more years. If you need it. It’s gonna be okay.

Melissa

Yes, yes. I mentioned in the book. I was like, my mom, my mom turned 30 She had three kids and a husband.

Jessica

Yeah, mom, dad. Like there’s no way I could have done. Oh, my gosh, no way.

Melissa

You have you have a little bit of time. 30 is not the end. I promise.

Jessica

Neither was 40. You’re like, You got to just enjoy. Everything’s fine. Everything’s fine. But yeah, thank you so much. Where can people find you online? And where can they grow up a copy of your book? So this is why I’m broke?

Melissa

Yes. So my book, so this is why I’m broke is found everywhere that they sell books you can go to so this is why I’m broke.com. So you have your choices. And you can find me on Millennial in debt on any platform. I’m kind of everywhere. So anywhere you look, I’m there.

Jessica

Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Melissa, for joining me on the podcast. Pleasure having you on. Yes, thank you for having me. And that is episode 372. With my guests, Melissa, John back to us make sure to grab a copy of her brand new book. So this is why I’m broke many lessons on financial literacy, passive income and generational wealth. I will be giving away a copy of her book. So we’ll first I’ll get to that in a moment. But make sure to follow her on Instagram at millennial in debt. She’s also at millennial in debt for Tik Tok, and on Twitter, it’s at Mill in debt. I’m gonna link to everything in the show notes for this episode. But again, her website, unsurprisingly is millennial in debt.com. Just go to the show notes for this episode though, Jessica Moorhouse.com/ 372. I will link to everything and include a link to the contest page where you can enter to win a copy of her book, and enter to win a copy of all the books featured on season 16 of the show. There’s a lot of books I’m giving away, I’m going to be wrapping up this contest in just a few short weeks, so make sure that you enter right now. So this is not the final episode of season 16, I do have another episode dropping tomorrow, you’re not going to want to miss it. It is all about really just understanding international banking and just an easier way to transfer and receive money, especially in Canada where it is very difficult to do that. I have someone on the show that is going to talk about, you know a solution that can kind of help us all. So you’re not going to want to miss tomorrow’s final episode of the show. But since I am going to be off the air very soon. I do just want to remind you of a few important things. First and foremost, even though we are entering the summer months, the summer months are usually you know a time where we spend a lot of money, right? We just want to enjoy ourselves and live our lives. And I totally get it. And I think there’s no problem with that as long as you do it. You know, within some you need to have a plan, you need to have a budget, you need to give yourself some sort of restrictions. Otherwise you’ll come into the fall and be like what happened? How are we going to get out of this hole now. And so if you need some help with that I do have some budget spreadsheets available to download on my website, Jessica Moorhouse.com/shop is where you can find literally every any type of budget for any type of financial situation. If you’re self-employed, if you’re an employee with a side hustle, if you’re a couple and one of you has a side hustle and one of us an employee, if you’re a couple and you’re both self-employed, I mean I can go on and on and on. There’s there’s a lot of different options. So go to Jessica Moorhouse.com/shop. There’s even a little quiz that you can enter your info into to tell you what is the appropriate budget spreadsheet for your situation. So check that out. But also, and this I think is also a great idea if you have a little bit more free time in the summer. If you want to learn more about investing and you’re Canadian and specifically passive investing like I talk about on the show all the time, you may want to check out my wealth-building blueprint for Canadians. I’ve had it for over two years now we’re getting close to 400 students. It is by application only. So if you want to find out more details about what the course is about and to apply, go to desk Moorhouse.com/course to find all that information, but it’s been honestly the best. The coolest thing about having this course is having the like the connections that I’ve been able to have with my students because once you’re in the core First you get lifetime access, you get access to me in our private Facebook group. But also I do q&a sessions on Zoom every single month and I will be continuing to do them throughout the summer. But not only that, you get access to a ton of curriculum and resources and specific spreadsheets and tools that I personally built, that do not exist anywhere else. Hence why I had to build the myself to not only educate you about the foundations of investing in Canada, but also how to do it on your own, how to actually be a self-directed investor, how to be a passive investor, how to construct your own portfolio, how to rebalance your portfolio, all that stuff is inside the course. And it’s just also built in with a great support system of me and other students. So go to Jessica Moorhouse.com/course to learn more. Okay, so that is it for me. Thank you so much to my podcast editor Matt right out. And yeah, I will see you back here tomorrow for the final episode of the more money podcast season. 16. Yeah, yeah. That’s what’s gonna happen. You’re gonna come back here, you’re gonna listen to it. And then we’re gonna say my final goodbye until we meet again in the fall. So with that, I will see you back here tomorrow. Have a good rest of your day.