[Ep. 386] How This Wall Street Trader Became a Millionaire in Only 2 Years with Vivian Tu

Jessica 

Welcome, Vivian to the more money Podcast. I’m thrilled to have you on the show.

Vivian 

Thank you so much for having me.

Jessica 

You’re so welcome. So you’ve got your your first book coming out. And you’ve had quite the quite a few years, I guess I’d like to kind of start at the beginning because it is a pretty incredible story, not really an overnight story, because it’s been several years, but still a very kind of quick rise and shift, I guess in terms of what you were previously doing in your last career. So let’s kind of start with, you know, I know you used to work on Wall Street and then you worked at BuzzFeed and then you made the choice to be hey, let’s try social media and tick tock as my thing. My new business. Let’s go back to your previous career as a trader was that kind of you know, this was my path. This is what I wanted to do. And then the reality sets and you’re like this is how well maybe not hell but this is that is like literally the story here from lots of other people who used to work in finance.

Vivian 

So to get into that I have to kind of give you the context. On a cold winter’s day I was born I was kidding about that part. But you know, I grew up to to Chinese immigrant parents, who who have lived through their parents, you know, suffering through the Communist revolution, they come to America as immigrants in their 20s. I’m their only daughter. In my household, there was this massive emphasis placed on education, on reading on being smart, like that really felt like the way to climb the socio economic ladder. And for my parents, it was always about survival, because they didn’t have an abundance of anything. They were, you know, they could hardly speak the language. So the messaging to me was always like, be a good student. And so that’s what I did. I was the valedictorian of my high school. Yes, it is still on my LinkedIn, I’m very proud of that fact. Um, but you know, I get into the University of Chicago, which I believe is like right now, at the top three university in the country, it is incredibly competitive. I remember walking into that school thinking I was so smart. And I was very quickly humbled. Turns out when you’re being graded against someone who has won a Pulitzer, as, you know, 18 year old, like, your grades are not going to be as good as theirs understood. And for me, getting a job on Wall Street felt like the next iteration of that dream, right. So like, in high school, I did the education thing, and I got the college thing, and that I worked hard to get the internship thing. And then finally, the internship turned into a full time job and career in this coveted exclusive club, where everyone is known to make a ton of money, live a wonderful life. You know, this was this was my parents American dream. This was, frankly, mine, because I had been told that this is how I could reach that pinnacle of success. And I’ll be honest, I bought into it hard. For the first year and a half, I will say, I was so lucky, I had the best manager, she was super tough. She was the only other woman on the team. But she was fair. And she treated me well. And I also definitely bought into the glitz and glamour. You know, like I was getting to sit in a suite to go watch the Red Hot Chili Peppers with a client, I was being taken out to the steak houses where, you know, I was being fed dinners that I certainly could not personally afford. And it was really fun for a little bit. I learned a lot and I felt really good. But eventually, the head of my desk got canned. And that happens on Wall Street when there’s management shakeups. And what ended up happening is the new boss came in fired half of the team. So imagine me coming in bright eyed, bushy tailed thinking like, I’m signing up to work with a very specific set of people who were my mentors during my internship who liked me who obviously liked me enough to give me the return offer, I was excited to be around these people. And suddenly, overnight, 50 literally overnight, 50% were gone. And new boss brings in a ton of new people. And I should even say people ton of new guys, his voice and the culture of the team and how I felt secure in terms of security at work shifted. Within that same time span. He found out that prior to my internship and my full time offer, as a trader, I spent a summer in commercial banking. So I knew my way around an Excel sheet. And that’s typically not a skill that you need, or really have as a trading analyst. But he was like, Oh, if you have that skill, like do you want to come work for my student to be right hand man, like he’s gonna be working on some really cool new projects. And when the head of the desk the new big head honcho asks you that question, it’s not a question. It’s a Do you want to keep your job? And I said, Of course, I’d be happy to more than happy to, and that’s the beginning of the end. Because once I ended up switching over to work for that guy, it felt like I couldn’t do anything, right. Suddenly, I had gone from super like, my managers manager, when I first started at JP Morgan, he was this this old school type guy and he would say he would say like, okay, rock star like okay, superstar. When you go from having a nickname, that superstar rock star to suddenly being the person who messes everything up or can’t seem to do anything, right. You really look internally and you’re like, Is there something wrong with me? Yeah, yeah, what happened? And this guy would lean on me to basically cover for him do all his work, which I recognized was something I was going to have to do for my seniors like you cut your teeth in a certain way you have to but on top of that, I would say he was like really really just like a walking HR violation saying things like you’re too girly to be here. He didn’t like how, you know my nails clips knocked on the keyboard. He didn’t like just who I was how I identify like, there were things about me that he didn’t like that I wasn’t ever going to fundamentally be able to change.

Jessica 

That had nothing to do with your, your role, your job to do with my intelligence, nothing

Vivian 

to do with my ability to do the job. And the straw that broke the camel’s back was I was I came into work one day with a long cardigan on. And he looked at me, he touched his hands together. And he bowed. And he said, Who is that a kimono. And just, I could feel my face getting hot. And it’s one of those situations where like a lump develops in your throat. And I wanted to have, you know, I always think I’m like, the type of person who is like a cool, good comeback for everything. But this was a situation where I thought of the cool good comeback, like, eight hours later in the shower when I was crying.

Jessica 

Yeah, like George Costanza in the car.

Vivian 

Yeah, I didn’t know what to say. And it became abundantly clear to me that aside from just like, the abuse, I was taking at work, like, this guy was never ever going to be in the back room, pounding the table for me to get paid, pounding the table for me to get a raise, pounding the table, you know, or sorry for me to get promoted. He just was never going to advocate for me. And if your manager isn’t going to advocate for you, and they’re the person who decides what you make and how your career progresses, I knew I was at a dead end. So I had to leave.

Jessica 

Did you find especially as a woman and like you said, when you started, there was hardly any women on the floor, some sense of responsibility? I know. That’s why I think a lot of women stay in toxic work environments as they feel this obligation to be that representation that doesn’t exist. But I mean, I’ve talked to so many women over the years, and yeah, the kind of the only way to not make these environments continues to leave like, what was your kind of experience? Like? Or was it very oh, I need to get out of here. If this is not helping.

Vivian 

I’ll tell you the most I guess, like hurtful or concerning phrase to me when I was leaving, I was so distraught that people were going to say I couldn’t hack it. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. When I showed up on the very first day, even if the old you know, team that I very much liked. It was 30 to 40 Guys, and one Asian woman, and she ended up becoming my manager and mentor. And, you know, there was certainly an unspoken bond, because we looked at each other and we were like, we look the same. And nobody else on this floor looks like us when I was being abused. And you know, frankly, just having the worst time at we’re going home every night and crying. Like I was worried about what my peers would say what other students from my college would say, people who I beat out for the job would say like, oh, look, she got this opportunity of a lifetime and couldn’t hack it. She couldn’t make it work. She couldn’t toughed it out, couldn’t grit her teeth. And that wasn’t it. I think it’s really frustrating to have that be the narrative of like, if people leave a bad situation, if because they couldn’t hack it. We’ll leave that instead of Parliament because they know they deserve better. They know they deserve more money. They know they deserve more respect. And I will say that’s something that I struggled I struggled with that even years after I left.

Jessica 

Yeah, I mean, because that’s the narrative that we’ve been told. It’s like if you can’t hack it, well, this is why we never hired women on the first place. You’re like, right, and it’s the worst. Yeah. So So from there, you left and then it was your next job at buzz? Yeah.

Vivian 

So the funny story about this is shout out to my mentor, my first manager, because even when I stopped working, as her junior, she always kept an eye out for me. And when the kimono comment happened, I basically went to her and I was like, I’m quitting today. And she was like, Don’t be an idiot. You don’t have anything lined up. You do not want to do that. We’ll talk after work. Just tough it out today. And I was like, okay, so I think she ended up taking me to go get like a slice of pizza or something. And I told her what had happened. And I could see it on her face, too. But it upset her. Because I’m sure you know, she she even came up in an environment that was probably significantly worse than the one I came up in. Because back in the day, like there certainly were no protections, you know? No, um, but she said, Okay, I have a friend she used to work in our business in this industry. She ended up leaving and going into media and the tech space, would you be interested in having a conversation and I was like, I will do anything to equipment. Let her have her call me right now. Funny enough, had a conversation with her. She ended up putting me through the candidacy process, met with HR but with some other people on the team and got my first job as a brand development strategist at BuzzFeed. And I ended up working for one best friend here and her best friend over here. So I ended up working for two best friends back to back and you know, I think that was very reassuring because I knew how my first manager operated so I had a sense like, you know, if you’re friends with this person, like they’re probably decent too, and she was more than decent. She helped me taught me everything I knew about media, I ended up getting promoted twice, multiple arrays every single year while I was at BuzzFeed promoted twice. And that was in the span of like three and a half, four years. So I felt really grateful I held three different roles there, I covered different companies, I was basically helping, you know, fortune 500, fortune 100 companies build out a full new campaigns, whether that would be launching a joint business venture with BuzzFeed, or just as simple as putting ads on the internet or creating content or doing something as an IRL pop up in flat iron in New York. So I got to touch and do a little bit of everything. And it was so refreshing to me to realize that the myth that I had been peddled that you could only get a good job and only have a good life. If you were a doctor, lawyer, engineer or financier just wasn’t true. I was making more money than I’d ever made in my entire life. And I was wearing yoga pants to work and no one said anything about it.

Jessica 

I, it kind of answers a question that I had, because obviously, you know, you read BuzzFeed, and then you made the choice to to do your own thing to run your own business as a kind of financial educator and content creator. And I was always wondering, like, gosh, did she like study marketing or something? Because like you are doing, but I guess you learned a lot from the BuzzFeed job and were able to apply it to your own thing Is that about right?

Vivian 

I feel really lucky that my working career was the best education I could have possibly gotten even better than, you know, my very expensive college education. I took the personal finance piece that I got from working on Wall Street, and I ended up combining it with the marketing, advertising, social media, entertainment, copywriting, everything, editing, even experience that I got at BuzzFeed. And I smashed them together. And a lot of people love to ask like, oh, like, how did you plan the launch? What was the secret? And I was like, there was no secret there was no launch. This was me making a video for my goofball colleagues at BuzzFeed who were asking me 8000 questions about what they should be buying in their 401k were this company stock options worth anything? You know, what health insurance plan did I pick and I was like, you know that I go to the doctor, like, once a year, like what hits you should probably have a very different health insurance plan than I do. And it was funny enough, because I kept getting the same questions. I was like, Oh, you guys are so annoying. I’m gonna put it on the internet. And you can refer to video seven for investing video five for budgeting video three for you know, the health insurance plan thing. And it was a joke. It all started as a joke.

Jessica 

When did you when did you start putting that content out there.

Vivian 

I put my very first video up on Tik Tok january first of 2021. And it was nothing for eight hours. I was like, Okay, I like put my video up. I got seven views. No biggie. And that night, I was watching a movie with my boyfriend at the time now fiance. And I had notifications on at that point in my life because I wasn’t a social media person. And my phone started buzzing so aggressively on the couch arm and it was getting hot. Like you know, when you’re hot, you’re like, is this gonna explode? And it was like what’s going on? And I opened up Tik Tok because I was getting a ton of notifications. And I was like, What’s strange? I have 7000 followers. And I was like, that’s weird. Because on my secret personal Instagram, I have like 1000 followers and I was like, I know 1000 People in my entire life. Why are 7000 people following me on Tik Tok? And just over the course of that week, that video ended up going crazy, crazy viral. And by the end of the week, I had 100,000 followers.

Jessica 

If only it was that easy.

Vivian 

Yeah, people ask me all the time. They were like, oh, like how long were you posting before a video hit? And I was.

Jessica 

I mean, I think part of it was you were obviously creating content that really you know, hit a note for people but I think sometimes it’s just Right Place Right Time tick tock in 2021 people were online pandemic, crazy for finance content, raise it just like was a really good yeah, situation to be in. But it was one thing to go viral. I know lots of people who’ve had like a viral thing. And then nothing really happens after that. How did you you know, think about okay, what are we doing next? Like how do we continue like, or was that the plan or you’re like, Oh, that’s a you know, fluke, whatever. Or did you’re like maybe there’s something in this maybe I shouldn’t see where this goes.

Vivian 

There was no plan. There was no content calendar. There was no business model. I posted because out of the basic like bullying from my work. BFF he was like, put us on the internet so i can watch them. I’m like, Okay, you’re like so annoying. thing. And when the video popped off, I called her and I was like, This is all your fault, like, what do I do now? And she at the time was a micro influencer in the food space. And I used to joke I always called her my influencer friend. Because occasionally, we wouldn’t be able to go to a new restaurant and eat there for free. And she would take me because she was a micro influencer. And she would post about it. And she was like, oh, like, I don’t know what to do at this point, like, you have more followers than I do. And I’m like, oh, like, help me. So she was like, I just think you should keep creating content. Why don’t you just like, put out a couple of videos a day. I’m like, a couple videos a day. Are you out of your mind? Like, I have a real job? Yeah. And she was like, okay, just like, shoot for like one a day that and then I’m like, Okay, I guess. And that’s what I did. I just started creating content, a video a day. And eventually, that became, I would ideate, seven videos on the Saturday. And then I would film a video on the Sunday, take off my shirt, put on a new shirt, and then film that video, take off my shirt, put on a new shirt. And I would make it look like they were different days of the week, when in reality, I had batch filmed them all. Because I couldn’t do that during the week, I had a full time day job. And like a pretty rigorous one at that I wasn’t working nine to five, I was working probably like nine to eight. So I didn’t really have the time to be doing. So I was just like, you know, we’ll try this for a little bit. And I think it was just really fun at the beginning. And that’s why I kept doing it.

Jessica 

How did you so now that the question is pure, like, Oh, that’s great. But how did you make money? Because obviously, there’s no way to sustain that unless you’re earning some sort of income from it. How did that start? Like, that’s a very different part of the kind of being the content creators like, Oh, now you’re in a very different, you know, territory. How did you start navigating that I guess? Did it start with the brands being like, hey, we want to work with you?

Vivian 

I think within like two weeks of me being on the internet, I had a brand reach out being like, we would love to work with you. How much do you want for three, a package of three tic tock videos, I obviously had no idea how to price this. I’m not going to name the brand. But I ended up keep in mind at this point. I have like 150 like 200 250,000 followers, we I got paid $1,200 For three videos. That’s $400 a video good deal for them. I’m out here ideating, filming, editing, posting using my you know, using my reach, like, they got that for $400. And I look back and I’m like.

Jessica 

You got to start somewhere. You gotta you gotta start. Everyone makes mistakes, right? Yeah, I was like.

Vivian 

wow, that’s like, that’s tough looking back at that. And I didn’t know, I didn’t know what to do. But what I would do is, and this is at the I’m not doing any external outreach. This is brands coming to me. Anytime a brand would agree to my rate, it would be a situation where I was like, can I have $700? And they’d be like, yes, yes. And I’d be like, Oh, damn.

Jessica 

That wasn’t enough. Yeah, I learned that early on. It’s like if they says, Say Yes, right away, you didn’t ask for enough money.

Vivian 

So then the next time I’d be like, can I have $1,200? And they said, Yes, yes, of course. And then I was like, What the heck. And so every deal I did, I just kept asking for more money. And I think it got to the point where at one point, I was like, I can’t believe I’m about to do this, but they were like, We want a video how much and I was like, $5,000. And they were like, Okay, you drive a heart. Like they were like, What about 4000? And I was like, deal. And I was like, like, did I just sell one video for $4,000? Because I think about what I had to do in my previous jobs to make $40 Yeah, I was like, it wasn’t one video. Like, it was a lot of work. And that’s how I ended up growing the business to a point where I was like, Oh, this could like actually be a really great side hustle in complement to my day job because I was certainly making still much, much more money.

Jessica 

And you got the security job, right? You’re like, why would I? Yeah, like I had insurance.

Vivian 

And yeah, I had a 401k It was that for a while. And I did that for about a year and three months where I was full timing, and Moonlighting. And that took me to a dark place.

Jessica 

Was it just like burnout just too much going on? So

Vivian 

burned out? You know, for context and I’ve shared this publicly like in my last year working in digital media strategy sales, I made $625,000.

Jessica 

Like that’s a good paycheck.

Vivian 

$25,000 without really putting in some effort.

Jessica 

A lot I can’t name too many influencers who even make out that have really big followings, like they’re they’re not making that kind of money. So it’s like, yeah, that’s a hard decision to leave.

Vivian 

I was making a lot of money. I had a manager who I adored The people on my team were cool. I liked hanging out with them, I would see some of them outside of work to the point that like, we were actually friends. And I’m like, this is a great cherry seat. But it got to the point where I was like, I hate my job. I hate your rich BFF. I hated making content. I hated answering emails, I hated doing everything. And I was so just down about everything, like nothing brought me joy anymore. And I told my fiance boyfriend at the time, like how I was feeling. And he asked me the strangest question, and I was like, Who made you so smart? He goes, you know, do you think you don’t hate either of these things? You just hate doing them at the same time? And I’m like, Oh, that’s a really good point. He’s like, You really liked your job before all this. And you really liked your which BFF when you were just starting and you could you know, work on your own schedule. And there weren’t clients on the other end of the phone, like asking for deliverables like, do you think like, you just can’t do both. And I’m like, pretty good point. But I was scared. I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know that I was, you know, I wasn’t gonna walk away from $625,000. That’s crazy. But we had a really meaningful discussion. And I was like, what if I take it full time and it doesn’t work, and I flame out and there’s no money, I can’t even pick up my half of the rent. And this is where I will say I was privileged that I had a golden parachute, because we had been dating for four or five years at the time. And he looked at me looked me in the eye and he was like, Ben, I work in investment banking, like, we will never starve, we will never be kicked out of our apartment on my pay. Like, are we going to be able to take as many vacations? Probably not are we going to have to take the subway instead of Uber sometimes Sure. But like our needs will be met. And if you want to take a big swing, you can take a big swing.

Jessica 

Yeah, and you can get another job. You know, you’re not unemployable.

Vivian 

And that was the real thing that kind of pushed me over the edge. It was like, I can always if this doesn’t work out, I can always go back and get another job that similar to the one that I had, because my manager liked me, I had great references. Everyone enjoyed working with me, I had no bad blood anywhere. And so I was like, I can always get that job back if I really wanted it. But am I ever going to get another opportunity to do this? Yeah. And the answer was no. And I didn’t want to look back on this moment at age 50, or 60.

Jessica 

So, so when you made that leap, and then you went full time, then you did have to start making a plan and a strategy? What did that look like? And what were some of your, your goals? What were some of the things and were they like all the things that you’ve accomplished? Like? Yeah, I want to get a book, I want to do this and what to do speaking all this kind of stuff.

Vivian 

Yeah. So the first person I heard on my team was my attorney, because I didn’t want to spend time reading all of my legal documents. I was like, I’m somehow gonna get screwed on this, I need someone who’s like, got an eye and like, has worked in the entertainment industry. And she was great for a while to the point where like, I just couldn’t keep up with emails. And I was like, hey, like, I don’t even have time to do the business piece right now. Like, what do I do? And she was like, I think you might want to take on a manager. And I was like, okay, so she set up a few calls with different managers. For me, I ended up meeting my now manager obsessed with her, it was just a perfect like Cinderella shoe fit from jump. She’s been with me ever since. I’m very fortunate that I’ve only ever hired one attorney, one management team and one agency, when it got to the point where like, it wasn’t just brand deals coming in, or partners looking to partner. There were being opportunities from publishing houses, there were opportunities from podcast networks, there were opportunities from major corporations to come keynote stuff. They came, my management team was like, hey, like, we’re getting a lot of outreach for some really big opportunities. And we think it would be prudent for you to get someone who is very, very seasoned in these specific spaces. And I was like, Yeah, I think we might need to take on agents. Then my manager set up a speed dating session for me and a bunch of agencies met people met people ended up, you know, filtering down to the last two. And I ended up signing with WMV, which is one of the largest entertainment industry, you know, agencies in Hollywood. And at WV, I was basically you get assigned agents, they basically raise their hand to be like, we want to work with this person. I have a point agent, I have a brand partnerships, commercials agent. I have a book agent, a podcasting agent, a TV agent, a speaking agent, like I have everybody and each of them is really good at that one thing that they do. And so then they’re able to guide me to make smart decisions in those spaces. And I think one picking smart people who know better than you do is a huge game changer in your business. To I would say I had to really, really structure my weeks because suddenly I didn’t have the biweekly meeting with my manager, and my manager, and she says, and I had to set time to film, I had to set time to take calls, I had to set time to do that. But creating that framework from the beginning, made it easy for me to then scale the business.

Jessica 

Did that come pretty quickly once you started on your own, just because it’s like, I know you’re afraid like, what if this doesn’t work out? But then you just had the volume of opportunities. You’re like, oh, it makes sense to hire these people, especially since they’re probably working on commission or a percentage. So it’s not like it’s, yeah, yeah.

Vivian 

The hiring came relatively quickly, the framework building came out of necessity, the very, so I ended up you know, my last day at BuzzFeed was on a Friday, and the following Monday, I woke up, my, you know, my partner left for his normal job. And I sat in my empty apartment. And I had like an Oh, shit. What do I do now? Literally, that’s what I do. Now, what am I supposed to do? And that’s when I started to outline what I wanted the next year, the next two years, the next five years, the next 10 years to look like because without that goal without a map, I was just wandering aimlessly.

Jessica 

So what does some of that timeline look like? And was it like, yeah, things were kind of going as they should? This is where I thought I’d be.

Vivian 

I made a mood board. I don’t know like a vision. Yeah, a vision board. Yeah, board of all the things I wanted to accomplish. And I will say I’ve put a lot of them. Like most of them, I make a new vision board every start of the year, so that I can continue to accelerate, and keep up that momentum. What I will say is that I had plans to have my podcast and write a book and have a TV show. And because I wanted those things, and I communicated those desires to my agents, and put in a concerted effort to get those things they’ve happened for me. What I will say was not necessarily as I would like it to happen, timing. You don’t get to pick when things happen for you sometimes in this business. And I think I probably would have preferred to have them happen, like one after the other versus all at the same time is usually happens all at the same time. And in my experience, nothing happens or everything. Yeah, it’s everything everywhere all at once. Yeah, yeah. And I will say there have been moments where I felt super overwhelmed. I’m like, How am I supposed to keep up my digital business, while building out my website while writing the stupid book, while you know producing this stupid podcast. And I’m just like, I hate everything. And again, I have to remind myself, I don’t my book, my book is not stupid. My podcast is not stupid. My digital business is not stupid. I just don’t like doing everything at once. So once again, I do you know, as my, as my partner mentioned, I make a list and I prioritize things. And I do them one by one, one after the other. And when I’m not doing 18,000 things at once turns out, I actually really liked what I do, and feel very fortunate that I get to make money and help people and do it in my pajamas. And, you know, I think that’s the dream, right? So many people dream about being able to work on their own terms, while doing something that’s fulfilling and helpful to the world, while still being able to make money and sustain their own lifestyle. And I have that.

Jessica 

But I guess a one thing and one thing I’ve experienced let’s build their influence service have experienced as part of that, not part of that dream really is the downsides. The criticism as someone I mean, I don’t have nearly as big of a platform as you I get criticism, it hurts for people. How about you, you have a huge audience? How do you like what’s the mental toll on that? And does that really detract you from like that really structured? This is the game plan? This is the calendar and then all of this kind of happens? How do you manage that?

Vivian 

When it was the first three months? I will say every nasty comment was like a gut punch. Yeah, it hurt my feelings. And I think like, especially with folks like us, we’re like, We are the brands. Mm hmm.

Jessica 

Yeah. It’s like when you say something about meats, it is about me like I take it personally. But I try not to now but you know, it’s hard not to.

Vivian 

Yeah it’s super hard not to. And you know, I think it can be very, very, I would say almost like isolating when you get a comment and you don’t have anyone to go to because none of my friends do this for a living. Like I don’t have anyone to talk to you about this. But what I’ve started to be able to mentally shift over time, is that my haters pay my bills. Because guess what, if you and I are arguing in my comments, we’re both idiots, but only one of us is getting paid to be there. Okay, and I think the shift has been really helpful. I’m in my mindset that like, nobody who is happy with their life feels fulfilled, has enough lives the way they want to live, randomly goes on the internet to like tear other people down, right? The people who do that are deeply unfulfilled, unsatisfied with what they have. And just because they can’t, they don’t want me to either. And I think that says a lot about society. It’s like, you know, if I can’t do it, you can’t, like, I’m not going to work harder to build something, but I’ll tear down what you’ve built. And I think it’s like a detriment to like, you know, I think it’s just one of the drawbacks of social media. Like there’s so many benefits that social media provides, whether that’s accessibility to information that otherwise wouldn’t be given. There is a community building aspect, there is just new learning and discovery. But there’s just also some haters, hateful people on the internet. And people feel really emboldened when they are anonymous, hiding behind a randomized profile photo, and can just be a keyboard warrior. So my opinion is let them hate, I’ve built the life that I want, and they clearly haven’t.

Jessica 

And a lot of the criticism I’ve seen specifically for women in this space is, you know, the privilege conversation, which I think is a very important conversation, but especially especially, you know, detracting from all of the accomplishment, accomplishments that you’ve been able to achieve. Because you had a high income, you went to a good school, you had lots of opportunities, etc, etc, etc. Does that shape or I wonder, does it do that some of those comments make it difficult to continue creating content? Or do you just like, well, it is what it is like, I’ll acknowledge my privilege, but that’s not going to stop me from continuing to do the work that I’m doing.

Vivian 

I would say, acknowledging my privilege has actually brought me closer to my audience, because they recognize that I’m real. There are certainly aspects of my life that I feel very lucky to have, you know, I am the model minority, I’m Asian, right? Like, things would be completely different. If I was another racial group. I had the opportunity to go to a world class institution and get an education there. Because my parents scrimped and saved for that education and helped me pay for it on top of, you know, merit scholarships that I applied for and got, but I’ll also say this, I didn’t grow up with money. I don’t have a trust fund. My parents are, you know, speak broken English. I didn’t get served life on a silver platter. I fought for everything that I have. And when people make comments, like, who does this girl think she is? She worked on Wall Street. It’s like, yeah, I get it. I look young. I’m cute. I wear you know, dangly earrings. And you don’t like that, because that doesn’t fit your narrative of what a rich person looks like you expect everyone who’s rich to look like Elon Musk. But that’s my power. That’s why I connect with people who have never seen themselves be financially successful, and why people are willing to listen to me versus their dad’s financial advisor.

Jessica 

One thing I’m curious about so I know in so many articles is as you were able to achieve millionaire status in your 20s at 27, which is an amazing feat. Do you find it now that you’re at this different financial level probably earlier than you ever expected to achieve? Has that made it more difficult to connect with your audience who may not be at that stage? Or, you know, has that changed anything with your lifestyle? Or are you one of those people? Like I like to kind of continue the lifestyle I had before I was at that financial level.

Vivian 

I think I’m still able to connect with my audience because I’m still cheap. No. No, I think people joke like, they’re like, why are you flying Spirit Airlines? And I’m like, well, it’s only a two hour flight and like, it was $42 Like, what do you mean? And I still you know, pick Basic Economy sometimes and always get in trouble because I have to change the flight and then I have to just, you know, whatever. Like, I think because of the way I was raised, I will say I will forever be that person. Like, I will go out and treat my partner to a beautiful Omaha say sushi dinner at you know, one of the fanciest restaurants in New York City for his birthday. I will still complain about the drinks being $18. Not to mention that you know, the price fix sushi menu was like $200. Like, for me. I am always still even now that I have more money, evaluating value versus price. Because to me, sometimes there is a difference. And there’s an inaccuracy on how things are priced and valued. Going to a fancy restaurant that is Known for its food, not for its vibe. And having a gastronomic experience for a special occasion is 10 out of 10 worth it for me, whereas buying designer goods full price is not like who am I trying to impress, I can get that same designer piece at like a Marshalls for, you know, 50% off, and no one is the wiser, like, I am still really mindful about where I shop, I’m still really mindful about how I spend my money. Because every dollar that I spend is dollars that I’m not investing. And what I will say is, the vast majority of my wealth is in investments. Right now, it’s not like I have millions of dollars in cash in cash account that I can then spend on bottles and models at the club, like the goal is not to get rich, the goal is to stay rich. And to do that, it’s not what people think it’s not you throwing bills off of a yacht, it’s about making smart financial decisions. And especially now with my line of work, I make more money in a year than the vast majority of people. But I also have to remember that this this job is not like being a lawyer or an accountant or any normal job, I don’t get 40 years influencer creator is a very new thing. And frankly, the, you know, the OG influencers, like the influencers, I’ve seen, the vast majority of them have a maximum 10 year shelf life. So I don’t get to make a you know, all this money for 40 years, I get to make it for maybe 10, maximum, more realistically, five to seven. And all of the money that I have made in those years, I need to be really, really smart with because otherwise, in the back half of my life, that money needs to sustain me, that’s not money that I can make now and blow. And I think that’s a big, big issue that I see with some of my colleagues and peers now in the industry, is they get this money for the first time, and they don’t know how to act, they start spending it faster than they can make it. And I’m like to set aside money for your tax bill, like you know that we have to pay taxes quarterly, right, a lot of tax. That’s not just free.

Jessica 

And that’s interesting, that makes a lot of sense. Because I was always wondering, I mean, it makes it does make a lot of sense based off not only your upbringing and seeing the scarcity that your parents had to, you know, and then they’re just so much part of them, and then kind of went on to you, but likely also to the experience you had at your job on Wall Street, you felt secure, and then you realize I can get fired. And so it’s like there’s no security really in anything. And so you need to protect yourself, but I think that’s really smart. Because, yeah, I see, often the message is become an influencer, make a ton of money. And it’s as if it’s gonna last forever, but it’s like you don’t, this started very kind of out of nowhere, it can end you know, in a blitz.

Vivian 

Just quickly. And that’s why I also think it’s so important to like, build my business laterally, like, have a podcast, have a book, have all these other things because Instagram could wake up tomorrow and decide I’m not the hot girl anymore. I’m not the algorithm can change changes, like you’re not the cool person, you’re not the person being shown in for you pages, and suddenly your entire business collapses overnight. Whereas like, if you have other mediums, if one doesn’t do well, in the same way that like you build a diversified portfolio of investments. Like, you don’t want to put all your eggs in one basket now.

Jessica 

Yeah, absolutely. So I know like we mainly talked about you, but honestly, I feel like this is so interesting. So many people are like, how does this work? How do people get to know that but I know you share a lot of the more granular how to personal finance in your book, just to at a high level, what were some of the key things that you want to make sure you were imparting to your readers that maybe gets lost in the short form content that you really want to, you know, make standout?

Vivian 

I think just that the myths that we know about the rich are not true. First off, they’re lazy. They don’t want to work hard. Like I think we oftentimes put rich people on a pedestal thinking that like they are smarter, faster, better, stronger than us, but like, they’re lazy, but lazy in a smart way. And that they know, their labor is not as good of a money making tool as their money. So the sooner that you can get your money making you money versus your body and your brain making you money, you’re in a better position. Another big myth, I would say is that like entitlement is bad. Rich people are entitled and yes, that does sometimes manifest is like a Karen at the front of the McDonald’s line. And like she’s just being horrible to like some poor 18 year old cashier. But I think a sense of entitlement is not a bad thing. Because you have to understand your business is valuable. You don’t need to be JLo to mean something to the bank. You can ask for late fees to be waived. You can ask for free checks. You can ask for all of these things. Because it costs a lot to replace you as a customer Go call your Wi Fi company. Go call your internet, you know your TV service provider. All those subscriptions you have get better rates go negotiate right now because you are allowed to be entitled Your business is valuable. And then just know Last but not least, I would say that like, talking about money is not taboo or rude or tacky, because rich people have used an incredible PR agency when it comes to talking about money. Because when they do it, it’s cool. You hear people talking about portfolios that their golf club at their social, you know, the social drinks lounge, they’re like, Oh, I guess I’m investing in this, what are you investing in? But like they’ve shamed everybody else about it? Like, what makes it awkward when two Broke Girls talk about money versus two old rich guys, like, there’s no difference. And you should be talking to everyone who will listen, and everyone who will respond to you about money. Because when we talk about money, we as consumers, we as employees, we as people who worked for corporations and other people.

Jessica 

Like we’re more powerful? How can we learn to change our financial lives? If we don’t tell anybody that we’re struggling? Right? That’s amazing. Well, I don’t want to keep you too much longer. But I know there’s probably so many amazing things not only just on the all the content platforms that you currently have, but your new book Rich AF where can people find if they’re new to you? Where can they find you online? And where can they grab a copy or preorder your book?

Vivian 

my book Rich a f the winning money mindset that will change your life is available, and you can order it at rich, a f.me? Yes, I made the URL manifestation because we all need that richness in our life, that idea. So rich, af.me is the website to preorder your book or buy it depending on when this airs comes in. But you can also find me across all social media as your rich BFF. And my podcast is called net worth and chill.

Jessica 

Last thing I forgot to ask why did you come up with the name rich? Are my rich BFF? Where did that come from?

Vivian 

Because my girlfriend’s from college. They’re all smarter than me. Surgeons, lawyers, like VC invest. They’re all smarter than me. But I was the first person to jump out of school and go straight to the working world. So I had money first, they all had negative money, because they went on to higher education went to go, you know, medical school, whatever. And when they would visit me, I would just pick up the tab for lunch or dinner just as a nice treat for them. And they would say things like, oh, so lucky, we have a rich best friend. So I looked up your rich best friend or like rich best friend it was taken. And this was like a backup like the third or fourth backup your written Yeah.

Jessica 

And everyone needs a rich BFF if it not to pay the bill, but at least to be that person to maybe open the conversation about money when no one else wants to. Right. Well, thank you so much, Vivian, for taking the time, it was a pleasure having you on the show.

Vivian 

Thank you so much for having me.