[Ep. 375] Unlocking the Power of the Sharing Economy with Eleanor Tucker

Jessica 

Welcome Ellen alert, the More Money Podcast. I’m excited to have you on the show, especially since I don’t get too many guests from across the pond. So this is very exciting for me.

Eleanor 

Thank you for having me, Jessica. It’s such a pleasure to be on.

Jessica 

Yeah, well, I loved your book. So thank you so much for agreeing to be on but when I read your book, The Thanks for Sharing, I really was excited to talk to you because I think the information you have in the book, I read it honestly in like a day. I thought it was such a great way to lay out this really important information about the sharing economy and you have information about you know how to do this in the UK, but also in North America, which I think is really vital, but it’s not really a topic that we spend too much time on, you know, especially in the personal finance space, but it really should be more integrated like I was read your book and I was thinking I was so much more, I think Korea Creative when I was broke in my 20s, like I would, you know, was trying a lot of these things just out of necessity. And I feel like a lot of us as we maybe get older or incomes increase, or we just get influenced by social media and what everyone else is doing, we kind of let these go to the wayside. So I’m so excited to have you on the show to talk about some of these exciting things. But before we kind of like really dive in, because we have got a lot to talk about, you want to tell me a little bit more about, you know, what inspired you to write your book, thanks for sharing, but also, what do you do next? I know this is part of your, your, your full time work.

Eleanor 

It is yeah, it’s quite unusual, I suppose to sort of specialize in this area, because it’s still kind of quite an up and coming space, the sharing economy. And, you know, most people have heard of certain types of platform, maybe home sharing, or, you know, the kind of Airbnb Model A lot of people are familiar with, but what most people don’t realize is there lots of stuff going on, in this space. And it’s all it’s all quite exciting. But a lot of the companies are startups. So you know, for background, really, I mean, I began my career as a writer, I worked in advertising. And then I worked as a journalist and wrote for newspapers and magazines. And way back, I wrote an article about home sharing and home swapping, and this is before Airbnb was even a name. And I thought it was kind of fascinating idea that these platforms, websites could connect people in a virtual space, but then, you know, that connection would flow over into real life. And it could be for the benefit of their finances for the environment, potentially, there seem to be, you know, a lot of good reasons for people to interact with other people, and, you know, share, and swap and, you know, sell and rent between each other rather than just using a company. So to me, or, you know, I’d already thought that, you know, this seems a great idea. But it wasn’t that, you know, that was immediately then I was completely immersed in the sharing economy, there were sort of gradual steps towards it. But I now consult these for these sharing economy businesses, and I work with the CBI, which is a big membership organization in the UK for companies and, you know, help businesses within the UK but also globally, to find out about what else is going on in the sharing economy space, and also help them with their, you know, their brand, and their marketing and things like that. And I work also with marketplace risk, which is a US organization, which helps the marketplace businesses like you know, I mean, Airbnb is a classic example, with their trust and safety and risk management as well. So do a lot of really interesting work globally. And then I suppose I reached the point where I thought, you know, I would love to tell people about this. But do I tell the people I work with who kind of know about it already. Or maybe there’s a space here to write something to write a book. That’s for consumers, that’s for write regular people and say, look, okay, there are these ways out there where you don’t have to buy stuff, necessarily, where you can share it or swap it or if you own it already, you can rent it out. And I kind of wanted to just really spread the word about that and actually write something that was easy to read and just for regular people so that they could understand about this and see that it was something that I think is only going to go from strength to strength hopefully.

Jessica 

Yeah, and I feel like this, especially with, you know, younger people, Gen Z, millennials. Well, not that millennials are I feel like every time I’m talking about that, I’m like, no, no, we’re not as young as we used to. Getting older as millennials. But I was just talking to my husband the other day, and he was he was talking to his stepdad. He was in his 70s. And he’s like, Well, I don’t know why people aren’t, you know, they don’t want to buy cars, they want to buy houses anymore. And it’s like, it’s a different world, a part of it is just affordability. But he was just like, he didn’t understand why people would, you know, rent cars or do like, you know, car sharing programs, or why people refuse to buy homes, they prefer to rent and I’m like, it’s a different world now. And I think not only is it more affordable, sometimes just to rent or even I know, you talked about this in the book, but this is something that me and my husband have done is you don’t need to buy all the things that you need, for example, yeah, I know, there’s some stat that I thought was so interesting, like everyone owns a drill and like the, the amount of time that we use that drill in a lifetime is like a couple hours, you know, it’s like why wouldn’t we just share our tools or rent you know, there’s lots of tool libraries. Or I know for us we did some work a couple months ago at a to shave basically the bottoms of our doors because they weren’t closing because we got new carpet that was a bit higher. And I’m like, I don’t want to buy this saw and all these things and we were able to rent them for the thing that we needed. I’m so glad we didn’t spend hundreds of dollars buying these things. And I think changing that mindset You know, from past generations for us all about ownership and having all the things that you need is a really great thing that, you know, a lot of us are adopting just out of either necessity or because we don’t want to, you know, have just a house full of stuff that we don’t use, because I think we’re seeing that with a lot of our parents or grandparents.

Eleanor 

Why do we have all this stuff that’s just laying that takes up space as well.

Jessica 

Oh, my gosh, boy, you know, this past summer, I was, you know, visiting my parents who live in Vancouver, and I was in their basement and like this, there’s too much stuff here. So I actually helped them clear out. And it was kind of radical this stuff that they’re holding on to him, like, why do you why do you still have this, someone could use this, someone might like this, you can donate it, you can sell this on a marketplace. You know, it’s just a different way of thinking. And it’s actually kind of exciting.

Eleanor 

And I think it’s a generational shift as well, I find it really interesting. And, you know, I explore it, explore it to a degree in my book, but I think that coming out of, you know, maybe the sort of War era of last century, you know, people didn’t have very much and when, you know, the economy has started to recover, and, you know, mass production, and, you know, all these things, I think there was a real sort of need and a desire, I think within people to, to have a lot of things, you know, and things were cheaper and, and this kind of, you know, became the norm throughout these generations. But I think now and I see this, I’ve got a stepdaughter, who is a sort of classic Gen X, and she’s not interested in ownership at all. And to her, I think it you know, it’s that sort of Netflix generation, isn’t it, it’s like you, you stream it, you watch it, you move on, you don’t, you know, there’s no sense of desire to, you know, when I used to move house, when I was younger, it was like, you know, bagfuls of videos, you know, DVDs and CDs, and all this, it was like, I own these. And now it’s like, people want to tap into something, they want the experience, and then they’re happy to move on. And I think it’s one of the reasons that we’re seeing the sharing economy gain popularity, because quite often these things are led by younger generation who are much more interested in trends. And I mean, fashion is a great example of that, where, you know, people are, you know, actually, you know, really proud of the fact that renting an outfit, or they are proud of the fact that something is thrifted. And you’re they’ve resold something, and whereas there might previously have been a stigma attached to that. Now, we’ve seen this generation who are kind of like, yeah, it’s rented, you know, I’m having this brief affair with this, this outfit, this look, this bag, whatever it is, and then I’m going to move on. And I don’t need that sense of ownership and that sort of garage full of stuff that we’re talking about that we’re only going to use occasionally. Or if ever literally, sometimes people have got stuff that they they have never and will never use and and you think about the carbon cost of producing some of these things like I mean, I can’t imagine, like you mentioned a power drill there, I can imagine what the carbon cost of production of something as complex as that something is, you know, electronic like that is, and yet for it to never be used or free. We only be used to sort of minutes and its lifetime. It’s, you know, it feels it feels excessive, doesn’t it feels quite sad.

Jessica 

It does. I mean, I actually really liked that part of your book talking about the renting of things, especially like clothes or you inexperienced with the, like kind of a carpet cleaner like you can, there’s things that we can rent that especially from like individuals, because I think sometimes when we think about renting, we think of Oh, renting it from a company, there’s things that we can rent that we have no idea and yeah, sometimes it’s like, oh, I have a stain on a carpet, I don’t want to go and buy a whole expensive carpet cleaner, I just need to rent one for a day. So I can get this stain out. We really need to kind of think outside the box and see what other people have. And I think that’s such a great idea. But do you want to share because I know, that was you know, a part that I’m like, I need to start doing that and look at some of these apps of renting like clothes. It’s something that I think people only associate with really high end clothing. That’s not the case, you can get some like, you know, just regular clothes for like an event. And you know, that’s the other thing that I always hated is like going to an event Oh, I have to buy an outfit that then I won’t really want to wear too many times, especially if I’m photographed it and or something like that.

Eleanor 

Exactly. And I think this sort of this idea that you know, it’s kind of been, I suppose, you know, perpetuated by celebrities this idea that oh my the horror of being seen in the same outfit twice has led kind of mere mortals like guards to think that you know, we don’t want to be wearing the same occasion outfit and then you know, as you say be photographed in it so you know what’s the solution there and clothing rental is is brilliant and And obviously, there’s a couple of different types of rental, the peer to peer rental that I try out in the book means genuinely borrowing from other people’s wardrobes. We’ve got some really exciting apps emerging in the UK and one of them actually has reached the US, I would need to double check that it was available in Canada, I’m not sure it is, as yet it’s called by rotation. But I know that it’s certainly reached the US. And this is this pure peer to peer where you are renting from other people. I mean, the downside of that, as obviously, as you know, you need to be renting from a wardrobe of somebody who is a similar size, do you. So there isn’t that range. But I think that rental for sort of, you know, regular clothing, as opposed to, as you say, sort of, you know, really special occasion stuff is becoming more mainstream as well. I think the the classic one in North America, is rent runway. And we’ve certainly got some big players in that space. And that’s where the, the actual inventory, the clothing items are owned by the company and rented out, which I, I still think is certainly a value, it’s easier on your pocket for for certain it’s a lot costs a lot less to rent something that is to buy it, and then it’s not going to sit in the wardrobe. So you are getting like multiple uses by different people out of the same items. So I think from that perspective, it’s certainly, you know, better when it comes to carbon as well. And I mean, I’m not entirely sure which brands maybe are in Canada, maybe I’ve listed some of my book, I would need to double check. But certainly there’s this idea that the clothing rental is certainly not just for special occasions, and certainly not anything to, you know, feel ashamed of. It’s almost like, you know, if you’re if you’re doing that, then you know, you’re ahead of the curve, rather than doing something that it’s, you know, kind of embarrassing.

Jessica 

But I mean, I was just thinking of stuff in my wardrobe. Like I bought a dress a year ago, and it’s a beautiful dress, but I wore it to a wedding and it’s very wedding asked kind of looks like a bridesmaid dress and like I’m never gonna wear this again. And what do I do? And so even thinking about even if you don’t want to rent someone else’s wardrobe, maybe someone else will want to rent yours, and what a great way to expand and maybe, you know, depending on the app make a little bit of money?

Eleanor 

Well, exactly. I mean, in my book, I do very much explore this from the perspective as somebody that’s renting other people’s clothes, partly because I couldn’t really find that many nice clothes on my own. As you will remember from reading to rent out, I did, I think I had one success. But you know, there are people there with sort of, you know, Carrie Bradshaw style wardrobes, and you just think, you know, this is an incredible way of monetizing the assets that you already own, getting more use out of them. And as soon as we start to get more use out of things, then you know, the production of these things is limited because you know, these things that it’s circular, isn’t it, but you know what, a great earner for somebody too, you could sort of earn back the cost of the outfit itself, we talk about the dress that you mentioned there, I mean, you you could rent it out and really sort of make the money back on it. And I’ve even heard of people actually buying investment pieces and putting them on these apps to literally sort of reverse fund them so it’s the opposite of sort of credit on you know, paying for something on credit and paying it back is literally buying it and then making it earn it’s you know its value back by renting it out. It’s brilliant.

Jessica 

It’s brilliant. Especially to like I remember my sister also she went to a wedding this summer and she was having the hardest time trying to find like a special occasion purse. She’s like I just need it for this wedding. I’m never gonna use it again. And yeah, sadly I did not think that hey maybe there was an app that you can rent something she did end up borrowing it from somebody she knew but you if you have like a really nice selection of purses that are just in your closet you’re not using someone might need that purse for like a special occasion and you can make some money off it really yeah like you said kind of reverse engineer

Eleanor 

Oh handbags as we call them are perfect for rental because of course there’s there isn’t the sizing issue. Yeah, exactly. And also they’re often very high value so you know they make a great rental item and I’ve certainly done that for for special occasions because it really does add something to and outfits well to have that that lovely bag doesn’t it?

Jessica 

Absolutely and I know so you know kind of shifting more to really sharing because there’s ways that you can share there’s no money passing hands and the one thing I really liked specially because you know the beginning of the book was the idea of food sharing and for me I got the idea because you know there’s some apps like you you know tried out where it’s like you were giving away food that was close to basics expiry still fine and good but you’re you know, you’re not going to use it and so it’s gonna be a waste if you keep it You can exchange it with somebody, and then you can maybe use the app and get something that you need to make for your meal that evening, which I think is amazing. But I don’t know if this is something you encountered by No, either. It’s like some was a hotel that you’d always get these like magic bags for which I’m like, I need to find out if there’s any hotels that do that. There’s so many places that are you giving away food, they’re like, Hey, we have too much or we don’t need this anymore. Come grab it for either, you know, a very small amount of money or for free. I’m like, one thing I’ve always wanted to do is really get into baking, but I hate the volume. Like, what am I going to do with all these baked goods? Sometimes friends don’t want to eat all of it? Is this a way that I can like, enjoy myself and then give it away and make someone’s day or something like that?

Eleanor 

That would be amazing. I wish you’d be near me if you start doing that. Because I love home baking and actually, I used to do the same. And I think particularly in the lockdowns I used to bake with my children. And then it’s like, what are we going to do with all these, so I would just take them around to neighbors and things but certainly on these apps, that’s a great use for them, that you can you can list items that you’ve you’ve made. I know that people do like to see maybe a prepackaged items, so that you know for things like allergies, and sort of health and safety. So I know that OLIO do sort of encourage people to, to show stuff that is packaged, and maybe sort of show what the use by date is on that so that people know what they’re dealing with. But I do know that people have have listed their own home baking, as well. And so much food got I mean, it goes to waste. And it’s a just, it’s an awful thing to see. And I just feel terrible throwing out food. It really is the one thing that just makes me feel awful if something has gone past its sell by date. And it just ends up having to go into the bin, I think, you know, this could be a meal for somebody, this chicken or something, it’s really horrendous. And these food sharing apps certainly do allow you to sort of see what you’ve got, in your cupboard, see a use by date coming up, and you think to yourself, like I’m not going to use this, let me list it. And then it’s, you know, it ends up where it’s meant to be in people’s stomachs rather than in landfill, which is awful. And the the ones where you can collect the food from a you mentioned hotels, cafes, restaurants, any sort of food related business, and they are subscribed to this app, the one we have here in Edinburgh is called too good to go. And it allows people to collect these sort of surprise or magic bags at the end of usually at the end of a sort of day. And you don’t know what’s going to be in it. But it’s there is a small payment, it’s usually sort of two or three pounds, and you get all the sort of goodies in a bag. And it just means that they’re not throwing them into a bin. And they’ve gone to a good home which which is great. So yeah, my my kids really enjoyed that one of my, my teenage son, particularly because if anyone listening has a teenage son, I knew there was a sort of bottomless pit when it comes to such things.

Jessica 

Yeah, but it’s one of those things. First of all, you don’t think about it and even just you given the idea of look through your pantry, your cupboards to see is there is there stuff that’s been there for a while. And it’s getting close to the date where it’s no longer going to be abused. And you know, you’re not going to use it, try to find a better way, whether that’s, you know, for example, doing a food sharing app, or even one thing that I’ve did some research on because I actually did this after doing a girls trip where we bought a bunch of food. And we always feel terrible, because we don’t eat all of it. We’re like, what are we going to do what a waste, we found that there is, at least in Canada, there’s lots of kind of community fridges and so there’s like either you can put dried goods or there’s a fridge and freezer or you could put fresh goods. And then whoever walks by and need something, you know, can do it. I found there’s one literally walking distance from my house, which is great, because I was looking through my cupboards after reading your book and like there’s a bunch of stuff that I’m not going to use here. I don’t want it to go to waste, what can I do? So there’s, you know, again, thinking outside the box, what can we do to eliminate food waste? Because, like you said, it is a big, big problem.

Eleanor 

And is that like the community fridges? Like anyone can donate and anyone can.

Jessica 

Yeah, it’s kind of like one of those like community libraries where there’s just like, you know, a little you know, thing on someone’s house where it’s like, you know, take a book or put a book in there and it’s just about sharing, it’s the exact same concept. So it’s kind of I think, in general for people who are maybe low income or just you know, you know, kind of food insecure and it kind of takes away the some of the stigma of like going to a food bank or something this is private, there’s you know, no one is seeing you do it, you know, you can just go wherever you want, grab whatever’s in there and bring it you know, to your home so you can make a meal which I think is really cool. That’s fantastic. Yeah, so I’m sure those exist, you know, everywhere. They’re popping up a lot more places. But it also reminds me of you know, going back to the renting of things and one thing this is something that me and my husband had been thinking as his car is getting older is Have you tried out renting someone else’s car and I know there are apps like it was like Toro or something like that. In North America, that’s about again, it is kind of like Airbnb of cars. But I don’t love because I have some feelings about Airbnb these days, it’s definitely shifted to what it used to be into, like people just using it to, you know, become a landlord. But I thought it was a really cool idea to rent someone’s car for one unit. Well, you know, what, if you need a van for a day, like, I know, so many people, like I’m doing some moving, or I just, I need to pick up this piece of furniture I bought, and I don’t necessarily want to go to a rental place. This is kind of an idea to rent someone’s car. Yeah. What was your experience? Like? Because I know it wasn’t perfect.

Eleanor 

Well, yeah, and I think, I mean, throughout the book, I really tried to sort of tell the stories of what it was like, for me to, you know, to try these things and show that, you know, it’s not always gonna go right for you. And I think that in a way, I wanted to give the perspective of just a, you know, a kind of normal busy mom, who was trying out stuff and show the benefits, but show stuff that could go wrong as well. So you’re absolutely right, I did borrow a car in my neighborhood. And it all went quite smoothly until I had to take it back. And it got dark by then. And I couldn’t actually remember where it was meant to be taken. So I think that says more about me than, than anyone else. But no, I love the idea. I love this idea of, of car sharing in the community peer to peer car sharing, because obviously, car rental is something we’re all super familiar with. And actually, this is often the case with the sharing economy, there are rental models in existence quite often, as you mentioned, refer the clothes rental, you know, people are familiar with this, this sort of rental of a ball gown or something, you know, but with with cars, you you know, we all know about the sort of airport, higher car things, but what the amazing thing about community peer to peer car sharing and a community is that people who have cars that sit, you know, in a driveway or on the pavement in a you know, in a parking bay, you know, unused for a lot of the week, you know, what that means is that people who only occasional car unit users could decide not to have a car at all, and simply use one of these apps to access a neighbor, neighbor’s car whenever they need it. And then for that person for that car owner, the person who was chosen to continue to own a car, but to rent it out, it just means obviously, that they’re able to get an income from something which you know, it’s increasing the expense. So I don’t know if it’s the same in Canada, obviously, you know, the the world over we’ve been affected by, by oil prices and the effect on on petrol prices and you know, rising things like car tax and insurance cost of living all these things. It’s like making people question whether it makes sense to own a car at all. And of course, you know, we’re talking about carbon, again, the carbon cost of producing a car is huge. And in fact, I think there’s a stat in my book, and I’m not going to actually exactly remember the percentage, but I think it’s around half of the carbon footprint of a car is in its production, not once it’s on the road. So if we can start to enable that to be fewer cars produced, and actually share the cars that we’ve got amongst us, this is way different from, you know, the kind of car rental that we might be familiar with, for when we when we go on holiday or something like that you’re sort of hertz car car, Hi, this is about having these assets in the community, and just really making use of them together. And this is that term collaborative consumption that I mentioned in the book, it’s about collaborating to consume, not just consuming our own things, and, and being that sort of territorial mindset that we’ve had for so many years.

Jessica 

No, absolutely. And, you know, sometimes you just need a car for a specific purpose. And that’s why, yeah, me and my husband, were just talking literally the other day about what are we going to do when our car like it’s, it’s an older car, and it’s, you know, it’s been around and it’s doing well, but you know, what are we going to do when the time is to make a decision about getting a replacement. And he’s like, you know, what, I think we should try to live without a car and try out some of these things that maybe renting someone else’s car or, you know, taking an Uber sometimes that makes the most sense if you just need to go to point A to point B, but there’s so many options now. And I know one thing that I’ve been seeing a lot on social media and online is the cost of cars is so much more expensive now than it was to purchase lots of younger people especially who think that they need a car and again, it depends on where you live. I live in the city of Toronto, it’s very easy to get around in terms of like there’s, you know, lots of cars, you know, if I want to rent a neighbor’s car, that’s, you know, there’s a lot of neighbors with cars just sitting on the street or there’s, you know, transit. So if you live in something a little you know, small town or suburb may or may not be, you know, possible but you know, people are spending like $1,000 a month on Car payments. And you know, with our you know, rising cost of living like that is a good chunk of change that can mean that you’re no longer paying your debts or you have nothing less to stick to save. And so is there an alternative that, you know, is not only better for the environment, but also for you know, your wallet?

Eleanor 

Yeah. And if you and yeah, and the other, the flip side of it says, keep the car and rent it out to people. And I’ve heard of people using the likes of Turo, and I’m not sure what the other ones are available in Canada, we’ve got a few sort of emerging car sharing platforms here. And I know that in certain European countries, it’s, you know, really quite normalized, people can make that sort of, you know, $1,000 back, just from from renting it out, and cover the cost that way again, so I always think it’s important to remember that in the sharing economy, somebody has to own and, you know, I’ve had this discussion before, where people have said, you know, to, you mean, nobody owns, it’s like, well, somebody has to, it’s a case of whether you’re the sharer or the Sherry, I suppose. And, you know, like we talked about with people’s, you know, your wardrobe or something, some people have got, you know, a better car or a bigger wardrobe. And, and they can be the ones that, you know, kind of monetize these assets, they’re making money, but for the actual person that’s doing the borrowing, they are tapping into something for a lot less as well. So you know, the economical benefits are on both sides of the equation, and the environmental benefits on both sides, too. So that’s one of the things that’s really exciting about the sharing economy. Absolutely.

Jessica 

And, you know, there’s, you know, one part of your book, you also talk about, you know, space sharing, and like we kind of touched on at the beginning of this episode, Airbnb was, you know, one of the first ones about, you know, sharing, and it’s funny, I think a lot of people forget where it started, it was really about, you know, renting, having an air mattress in your home and renting that out to someone, because there was a conference that there was no hotels that you can rent. And now it’s kind of just become something very different than what it originally was. And it reminded me to back in the day, there used to be an app, and I had some friends that did a lot of traveling. And it’s called couchsurfing. And it was global. And you could literally, it was free. So it was very much about the sharing, of, you know, my space to give you you know, help as you’re, you know, backpacking around Europe or, or what have you. And, you know, it’s there’s still a lot of things like that out there. I know, you tried out, you know, renting or you stayed at someone’s house when you know, you’re the family member, you hadn’t London wasn’t able to give you some space. And also there’s the time the office, I’m curious, I wanted to ask you about when you did some work, there was like a hotel, and you can rent like a desk or whatever it was it actually like, were you not supposed to be there or was it?

Eleanor 

Yeah, that was another? Yeah, that’s a theme things go wrong. Yeah. Yeah, I got swept along and ended up in a meeting I Oh, that’s done. But yeah, I didn’t want to put people off using the app. But it happened. And it was kind of funny. So I thought I would share it in the book. But I do use this app, it’s actually kind of new, emerging app that’s really only in a couple of UK cities, but I’m hoping this will catch on, and, you know, it’s good swerve, and it’s the idea is that you can rent a space to work during the day, when hotel or cafe or restaurant has that that space has that downtime. So, of course, you know, the sharing economy isn’t just about sort of person to person, it can be about sort of business to consumer as well. And, and what happens here is that these, maybe businesses with quiet times during the day can allow people to come and work there. And, and what that does is obviously, it makes them look busier, it sort of helps people find out about them, you know, a bit of sort of brand awareness that, you know, they might get some extra sales from coffees and things like that. And just generally it sort of keeps that hospitality industry moving along and helps people to sort of get out the house as well, which I think after lockdowns, I think a lot of us are fed up with working from home. So that was a that’s a great example of that kind of space sharing using something, you know, an underutilized space. And there are some other examples. I mean, I’m not sure which ones are available in Canada, but when I started looking into different kinds of space sharing, storage is one certainly where you can think as one could just try to think of this good space. But I’d need to check what was available in the Americas but there is certainly a couple in in the UK where you can you know if you’ve got things that you want to store like power drills, No, I’m joking, but if you have equipment of some sort, and you maybe live in the center of a city, and you don’t have that Huge amount of storage that maybe somebody nearby has a bigger basement or a loft or a cellar or something an area that they can rent out. And again, it’s that sort of empowerment, really, you’ve got a space that you want to rent out and you become a sort of almost like a micro entrepreneur, then making money from that. And then for the person who needs the storage space, that means that maybe they don’t need to travel out of town, to some big sort of lockup, or, you know, they can store stuff locally. So there’s that there’s also, when I looked into it, you can rent creative spaces, you know, for you know, for work, or maybe, I don’t know, anything from music practice to, you know, maybe you’re not getting enough inspiration at home, if you’re painting or you you want to rent a space to do that. And so, literally renting spaces in people’s homes, that maybe are more creative for you, but also gardens, I didn’t realize that you can rent, you know, if you wanted to have a garden party or event or something, or even actually use their garden to grow vegetables, if you don’t have that space yourself, there’s a startup called a locked me, where you can actually rent out part of your garden as a sort of vegetable patch for people to come and use. So honestly, it’s such an inventive space. And there are so many brilliant ideas coming through. And, you know, none of these are mainstream at the moment, but I think they often tap into a need and, and I think with urban living, particularly I think space is an important one. And we don’t often have a lot of it. And I think that it has to be shared around so it makes it perfect for the sharing economy.

Jessica 

Yeah, no, I love the idea of the sharing of the garden. Because even in my backyard, I am just not I do not have a green thumb. But I have this one space, it’s an old sandbox that I know can be converted into to like a little vegetable garden. But I do not have the time or the inclination to figure out how to do that. I’m like, I would love to be able to give someone who maybe lives in an apartment and but really wants to garden, this space. So I can enjoy it looking beautiful when it’s grown, and they can have that space to have a garden. But I think the other thing that we haven’t really touched on, but this is I think part of the reason why I really like the sharing economy economy, especially as we’ve gotten out of lockdowns and COVID, and we really disconnected, like we felt more online, but we were disconnected on an actual human level is, this is a great way to meet new people to to get to know people in your own community. Because we’ve, I feel like gotten really far away from that. And, you know, you know, part of that is meeting people doing these apps, whether it’s like sharing food, or space or what have you. But also, I know, you tried a bunch of apps that were all about skill sharing, which I think is really cool. And I’ve heard a bunch of about these before, but you know, some of them again, are like, oh, you know, pay a fee, and then I’ll teach a skill. I love the idea more that no, there’s no again, payment involved. You just get credits for if you know, you have to help people, and then you can, you know, enjoy someone else’s service, you want to kind of share a little bit more about your experience with that I loved that idea.

Eleanor 

It’s amazing. And actually, so many people have asked me about this element of the book. And I did actually, you know, I wasn’t 100% sure of it was even going to include it because it’s not a physical thing. And sometimes it’s hard to kind of categorize it, but I loved it so much I did include it. And the idea and I talked about in the book, how it’s not a particularly new concept. The idea is that it’s a skills exchange, but what happens is that an hour of your time doing thing that you’re good at, is automatically the same value as an hour of somebody else’s, and with their skills. So you on a platform, and there’s a couple of them coming through in the UK, I’d love to know if there was anything similar coming through in Canada. But the beauty of the technology is that it allows you to swap your skills, but you don’t always have to swap directly with the other person. So for example, as you know, because I’ve written a book that I’m a writer, so I can help people as I do in the book with writing, so maybe their website or something. So I list my skill as as copywriting or writing. And an hour of my time is worth an hour of somebody else’s. So when I want to trade that, it could be that somebody wants to use an hour of me and then I get an hour’s credit, but I can then use that for a different skill, which makes it brilliant because you don’t always just have to engage with that one person and I cash an hour in then for something else. And in the book, I do a couple of things. But one of them was I got somebody to help me out with my house plans because I keep killing them and I getting slightly better, but she was brilliant. And that hour is so valuable. You just think well, you know, if I was just sort of, I don’t know, hire a professional gardener and how would you even do that but just to be able to get that advice. And that you know, just that know how from somebody. But it could be something much more practical than that like bookkeeping or something to do with I don’t know social The media even sort of like, you know, fixing something in your house. So all these types of things, you can just swap and and it’s always an hour. So it’s completely cashless and the potential for that I mean in communities is huge. And you do see it happening in an informal way. And certainly around sort of community centers, I know that people have done that. But I think technology could really power this and make it much more mainstream for everyone to use. And it’s brilliant, I think, for older people as well, who’ve got a bunch of skills that maybe younger people don’t have anymore. I mean, things like crafting, and, you know, mending and all these sorts of things that a lot of us want to get back into. It’s like, brilliant to be able to sort of tap into the older generation, but also you touched on this idea of, sort of, you know, loneliness and exclusion. And I, I think that, you know, ideas like this, where we’ve come together, and actually, it’s a meeting of minds, and I think it’s so good for everyone involved. I would love to see these, these sorts of platform really thrive in the future. Have you heard of anything in Canada like that?

Jessica 

I haven’t. But I’ll you know, I haven’t done that much research. So I’m sure I’m hopeful something exists, because I am already thinking of like, I mean, obviously, like, I’ve got got some skills, but there’s so many things that I like to learn just hobbies. And I know, you met up with like a wine expert. I’m like, Oh, my gosh, I would love that I love wine, and I know nothing about it. I would love someone an hour of someone’s time who’s really into wine, you can tell me what to choose to know. Yeah.

Eleanor 

Because imagine, imagine how much it would cost to suddenly hire a kind of wine. Yeah, there is a worldwide organization called timebanking, which I do talk about in the book. I mean, it’s not just a sharing economy in the sense that, you know, there’s no app for it, I don’t think and I’m actually not sure how it works on a kind of, you know, on a actual functional level, I don’t know, but I know, it’s an organization, I know, it’s based around this idea of, of cashless skills exchanged based around an hour of time, hence the name. So anyone listening and wants to sort of find out more about skill sharing, I know, time banking would probably be a certainly a place to start. But I just think it could be a fantastic, you know, it could be a revolution, if everyone got into this. And that’s thing about the sharing economy, it’s like, I just want more and more people to get involved. Because the more people get involved, the more stuff there is out there. And there’s, you know, there’s more dresses to hire, there’s more food for, you know, going around, that’s not ending up in landfill, there’s more, you know, gardens to plant vegetables in, and things like that. And I just think it would kind of make the world a better place.

Jessica 

I agree. I mean, I think that’s what I found so inspiring about your book is just seeing that what the world of the future of the world could be, if we all, you know, came from a place more of less of what can I buy? Because I see everyone buying all the stuff and what can I share? Or what can I rent or, you know, what’s a different way of doing things that will benefit me and others and, you know, the environment and the world at large, I think it’s just a really important thing to, to integrate into our lives, especially is that honestly, like, we really do need to make some big changes, because, you know, you know, and I, you know, we live in Canada, and there’s so many wildfires and climate change, and, you know, things are happening rapidly. And so we need to do what we can obviously I think, you know, things that on a higher level need to change. But, you know, what are some things that that are within our control that we can do to make a really good positive impact, and there’s so many things out there and, you know, really appreciate, again, that you share lots of your personal experiences, trying out things. And again, you have some great lists in your book, but even if this inspires someone to be like, is there like a food sharing, you know, situation in my community, that could be a great thing, especially if you’re like a busy mom or something like that, and trying to figure out, oh, gosh, I need this XYZ. And there might be someone literally just down the street from you that has exactly what you need. And, you know, again, to that the community aspect, I think we really need to figure out ways to reconnect with one another because it’s a you know, it’s the best part of life is getting to know other people and learning from them. It makes you feel like, oh, you know, there’s a point to all of this, you know.

Eleanor 

Yeah, and save some money into the, you know, into the equation. And I think that, you know, the the sharing economy feels like it’s sort of timely for several reasons, because, as you say, we’ve all got concerns about planet, but it’s hard to make changes when you are worrying about money at the same time. And I think the good thing about the sharing economy is that you get that connection to people you get the actually, you’re doing something that’s maybe helping the planet, but also a big incentive to get involved as saving or making money from it as well. So it just feels like gosh, you know, how could you not get involved with it? In the current climate?

Jessica 

What’s that? What’s the downside? I mean, I’d say the only downside I are You know, one thing to keep in mind is what you’re doing is you’re you’re effectively probably trading some of your time. But, you know, when people can like, Oh, I just don’t have the time. I don’t have the time. Believe me. I complain about that all the time. And if you actually looked at the amount of hours you spend on something, that’s not really a good use of your time. There’s there’s time if you want it to, if you want some time, there’s always some time somewhere.

Eleanor 

Exactly. I would think if I could trade the time I spent I don’t know, looking at Instagram or something. Yeah, could always be better spent can?

Jessica 

Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, it was such a pleasure having you on the show. I encourage everyone to grab a copy of your book. Thanks for sharing. Where can people you know, find more information about you? Or the book? Where can we direct people?

Eleanor 

Oh, well, I am on Instagram, which is a good place to find me. And the book itself is yeah, it’s available worldwide. I do have a website, which is Eleanor Tucker, all one word.co.uk. Which if anybody wants to find out about some of the work they do. And yeah, that I hope people enjoy the book. And it’s got a very British setting. But I’ve had some really great feedback from people in America and Canada about it. So I hope that everyone enjoys it as much as you did. So thank you so much, Jessica.