[Ep. 388] Money in the Shadow of Terminal Illness with Jeremie Saunders

Jessica 

Welcome Jeremy to the more money podcast and the first ever video podcast in the 20 in in 2024 that I’ve ever done. So I’m excited and thank God you have a beautiful studio beautiful lighting. Beautiful microphone. I’m so lucky. Welcome.

Jeremie 

Yeah, well, thanks for having me. I didn’t think it was video. So if I didn’t tell ya. I love you know, coming from my passion as a as a youngster and into my, into my early adult life was was improv. And this is these are the moments that I look for the moments where it’s like, weren’t expecting that, and this is now a gift and I’m gonna have to sit with this gift forever as long as the internet exists.

Jessica 

I know man, you think that because I looked at your bio and I honestly did not know that you were an actor and did some amazing things but the improv thing that is a special skill that is my worst nightmare going on stage and having no rules no no plan no script absolute like I will never do that in my life. So let’s go back to get a little backstory about you to fight because you know, now you are known as kind of sick boy, the podcast and then now helping other people create podcasts is just very exciting. But I assume similar to me, a weird a bit of a background. I went to film school, you probably had aspirations of being a famous actor and doing the thing or what have you tell me what what the hell happened?

Jeremie 

Man, I tell you, like if I was if I was talking to my you know, 15 year old self and and told him what I would be doing it 35 I’d be pretty astounded for a number of big reasons. Number one, I’d be like, I’m sorry. I’m gonna be alive at 65. What? But then on top of that I would have I probably would have scratched my head and said audio production. Well, that doesn’t make a lick of sense. I was born in St. John’s Newfoundland, and and I was raised in Halifax, Nova Scotia. And we moved my whole family we uprooted and moved to Halifax when I was three because I was born with cystic fibrosis which is a is a genetic disease. And in Halifax, the children’s hospital here, the IDB, UK, it’s it’s renowned in Canada is one of the best children’s hospitals in the country. And so my parents thought, Okay, well, we’ve got this, we’ve got this little boy who’s got some serious health issues. Let’s go somewhere where we feel like we can get a grasp on that. And so I spent the majority of my life living here in Halifax where I’m actually recording from, and one of the, one of the parts of, of, you know, having a kid with CF, and especially back in, in this day, I’m pretty sure this is probably still the, the, you know, the deal for for parents with kids with CF today. But physical activity is extraordinarily important in terms of managing the disease

Jessica 

Ro like build your lung capacity?

Jeremie 

I assume. Yeah, yeah. So for people who aren’t familiar CF cystic fibrosis, I’ll just say CF. CF is a, it’s a multi organ affecting disease, but it’s mostly known to be a lung disease. And so, you know, I’m not a doctor. So if any, you know, any doctors are listening to us right now just cover your ears. But basically, my body has this inability to move chloride or salt in and out of the cells of my body. And so that leads to this buildup of really thick, sticky, heavy mucus. Gross. And so when the way that the lungs are involved, is that, that mucus, it cannot clear out of my lungs naturally, or it has a really hard time. And so physical activity is super important, because that allows airway clearance. So when I was a kid, my parents kind of just forced me to be physically active. And, you know, they tried a variety of different sports. And I, I really took to the sport of canoe kayak. So I was, I was, you know, when I started it, I was probably, oh, I’d say I was probably about 1010 or 11. Wow. And I, I picked it up and was, you know, really excelled. And so, in my youth, right up till, till about the age of like, 15, or 16, my whole worldview was just like, I’m gonna go to the Olympics. Oh, that’s my thing. And I was kind of, I mean, you know, I think it’s too, it’s, it was too early for me to say that I was on that trajectory. But I was, I was on the trajectory that if you wanted to get there, these are the steps that you had to sort of achieve. And so, you know, I was I was around, it was around the time where I was the age where I was competing for, to join the Canada Games team. And things were looking up and up, things are looking good. But I ended up that year, suffering a knee injury, I developed like a callus on my patella. And I basically went from the the top can newer in Eastern Canada to, you know, one of the lowest on the rung. And at that point in my life, it became very evident to me that this was not something I was going to be able to, to pursue. And so, you know, as as like a as a youth as a as an athlete, who is really seriously taking athletics as like a, you know, a serious path in in your career. I was I was basically training two to three times a day, on top of going to school. And so all of a sudden, I’m no longer training and I had a really good friend, still still one of my best friends of all time, his name is Ryan. And he was on the improv team. And he said, Jerry, you should come you should, you should audition for improv. And I thought, all right, well, that sounds fun. And I took the improv the same way that I took to paddling, I just naturally excelled. And that sort of like, you know, I got the acting bug. And you know, from that led to being cast as like the lead role in the musical in grade 12. And, and so I was like, Okay, well, maybe this is my career. You know, I wanted to go the Olympics, which was a pipe dream. Now I want to be you know, a world famous actor.

Jessica 

Also a bit of a things about Yeah, right. So we’ll dive into the psychology of all that later.

Jeremie 

So that’s what I did. I went to I went to I ended up auditioning for at the time for well, actually, you know what, I went to Acadia University for my first year of university, which was which very quickly, I realized that if I wanted to take my life seriously going to a hardcore parties, university, I was Uh, oh, yeah, not good for me. That was, that was a bad route. So I was like, Okay, if I want to take this seriously, I have to audition and try to get accepted to a conservatory style Acting Program. And so I auditioned for the three top schools at the time, this might have shifted, but at the time, it was Ryerson in Toronto, York, in Toronto, and National Theatre School in Montreal. And, and, you know, not to like, this is a little bit of a subtle flex, but to get into one of those three would be immaculate. You know, they they whittled down somewhere, you know, somewhere in the realm of like, 2000 students, they ended up taking 20. In each program, I got into all three. Oh, look at you. So I was like, Okay, this is like, I’m onto something here. You know, this is like, I’m passionate about it. I’m, I’m good at it. And maybe this maybe I could actually make something of this. And so I ended up going to Ryerson, and studied acting. And before I even got into my fourth year, at Ryerson, I ended up getting cast in a children’s television show called Art Zuka.

Jessica 

Is this still available that we can find on the internet? Oh, it’s gonna find it.

Jeremie 

Sure is. And if you if you happen to be if you have any listeners in Turkey, there’s there’s a very, there’s a very, very big chance that they know exactly who I am. Apparently, the show still today is like, a huge deal in Turkey. So anyway, yeah, it was so so with this, I decided, Okay, I’m going to take a break from university, I’m going to follow this. And that just led me down this very interesting path where over the next like, 10 years, I, I was living my dream I was I was acting, I ended up really taken on to like hosting things like documentaries. One of the like, you know, most memorable experiences of my entire life was hosting a National Film Board documentary for, for schools, it was called Space school. And at the time, astronaut Chris Hadfield was prepping for his mission to command the International Space Station. And so as a part of this documentary, I followed Chris Hadfield around the world, and we documented his training. So, you know, I went with him to Houston to the Space Center in Houston, we went to, we went to Star City and Moscow, where all the cosmonauts and astronauts kind of kind of hang out and train and prep before they go to Baikonur, Kazakhstan, where I also followed him. And we, you know, stood next to Chris and we watched a Soyuz rocket launch three astronauts, the three astronauts ahead of his mission, up to the ISS. Unbelievable, you know, mind altering experience. And that, you know, at that point in my life, it was I was kind of pinching myself going, this is this is wild, you know, like, I’m literally living my dream. But all of that sort of shattered. In I believe, 2015. And the reason for that was because, here in Nova Scotia, there was this incredible film tax credit. And it was, it was this tax credit that invited a lot of film work from the US into the Province of Nova Scotia, you know, anything that was shot that had anything to do remotely with like a coastal city, an eastern coastal city, it was all shot here. So there was so much work. But there was a sort of shift in government. And the the Liberal Party at that time, basically just axed the film tax credit here in Nova Scotia. And within the span of a couple of months, everybody I knew in the industry, uprooted and left went somewhere else. They went to Winnipeg, they went to Toronto, they went to Vancouver, wherever. But the thing was that I was kind of stuck here. And the reason for that is because living with cystic fibrosis, Nova Scotia is a pretty awesome place to be. And the reason for that is that every single medication that I need to stay alive is fully covered here in Nova Scotia.

Jessica 

Just under the provincial health care plan, everyone gets that when they pay their taxes.

Jeremie 

That’s right. And and I came to realize that that’s not the case. Everywhere you go.

Jessica 

No, that’s when we met and we chatted about health care, like, oh, yeah, Ontario doesn’t really cover anything. Yeah. Like I just had to get a prescription some antibiotics the other day and it wasn’t that expensive. It was only $18 but Yeah, no, nothing’s covered. No, like you have to and I don’t have private health insurance that may change. But it’s just yeah, it’s just like, it’s fascinating. I want to I want to kind of talk about that, because that’s an interesting thing. I didn’t realize how different health plans are per province. I’m originally from Vancouver. And I know, at some point you lived in BC as well, I don’t actually know if their health program is better than Ontario. I know, Ontario was just like, we have a terrible government right now. And not to get political, but they are just, you know, a lot of cuts. And one of the things that just aren’t helping people who need it, and it’s interesting that, yeah, some people may have to choose where to live in this country based off this really important thing, which is, is this going to, you know, save my life, because these medications, I assume that you’re taking, if you were to pay out of pocket, they’d probably be very expensive. Yeah.

Jeremie 

So for context, I, I, you know, in the midst of this, this sort of life crisis, where I figured, oh, I can’t do the thing that I’ve wanted to do that I’ve spent all this time training and and dedicating my life to do and realizing like, oh, you know, as an actor, I rely on other people to allow me to do what I do. Which was, which was a bit of a staggering realization. And so what I decided at the time at the time, I was also a yoga instructor. And so I was like, oh, okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna move to Salt Spring Island in Vancouver, and become a total hippie and open up a yoga studio. And, you know, I had a business plan I had, I had a business partner, who was kind of like, like, sort of sponsoring me and supporting me in that endeavor. And I got to BC, and I, and at this time, I was like, free healthcare, like cannon rock. And I got to BC, and they were like, oh, no, no, no, no, you’re like, these meds are covered. Yeah, some of these essential ones, but all these other ones that like really, really sort of guide you towards having a quality of life you have to pay for and that’s going to cost you somewhere in the realm of like 15 grand per year. And so Wow, for someone who’s like a yoga instructor and a starving artist. It’s like, oh, that’s yeah, I don’t have that. And so I was in Saltspring, for less than a year, I think I was there for nine months, moved home back home to here. And that was kind of the the moment where it really struck me like, oh, financially. Jer, you didn’t really plan for that you didn’t plan for your future, you didn’t plan for anything. And so I was kind of just left sitting here in Halifax going, What the hell do I do with my life, you know, this is it was such a jarring realization.

Jessica 

Yeah, your health is really the ultimate determinant of what your future is gonna look like. Because you have to be in a place where these things are covered. And that’s that kind of when you think about it, and this is something that honestly never gets talked about in personal finance, a little bit more on the US side, because of, you know, their health care or lack thereof of public health care. But in Canada, I feel like a lot of a lot of people think, oh, you know, in Canada, it’s all it’s all pretty much, you know, universal, it’s all good. And he was like, No, it’s not there’s things that are not covered. There’s a lot of things that are not covered or if it is and I’ll just bring up a personal situation I’ve been dealing with it is hard to find the help that you need. So I’ve had a health issue recently, and I don’t have a family doctor because they’re all leaving Ontario because it sucks over here. And so I found through the office I usually go to there was a virtual Doctor free covered great talk to somebody she’s like, this is probably what you have. She’s like, you should go to an urgent care clinic and like great sounds good. I Googled for days Urgent Care Clinic in Toronto. I still cannot find what like I call it a bunch of places that were listed on websites they’re like No, we don’t do that. So I’ve had to go to a place it’s an hour away. And it’s like just even that it’s like that is a privilege that I was able to take time off work because I work for myself my husband was able to drive me because we have a car an hour away we went there once this Today we went we went today I have to go back tomorrow for the situation. This is not okay. That there’s like no access even though the procedure that I got was covered. There’s so many things where it’s like if you work a nine to five you’d have to take off work you will not get likely paid for that and then you’re spending an hour to two hours in traffic going to get this thing fixed. This is ridiculous. And this is just like a minor situation. What if you have some like chronic and that’s the other thing too. I was writing my book and that there’s a section on People are not talking about the cost of having some sort of death disability or chronic illness or something like that. Not only the actual financial cost of it loss of which is not covered in any way by public health, or even if you have private health, it’s only going to help you, you know, a little bit of a way, but the amount of time you have to take off work, and you can’t earn to pay all of your bills, like no one’s talking about it, because I think it just makes people I don’t know, I’d love to know your perspective, but like, uncomfortable, like, we don’t want to talk about it, because we hate talking about privilege, or something.

Jeremie 

Yeah, totally. And I mean, you know, I think also too, it’s not just, it’s not just that issue, but it’s also the issue of like, we just don’t we actually don’t have the supports in our country to, to support people with that situation. So it’s, you know, it’s like, I mean, you know, you’re speaking to a personal experience of your own health right? Now, imagine you’re, you’re a new parent, and you’re healthy, right, mom and dad are healthy, but you are the new parent to a child with cerebral palsy, or to a child with Down syndrome or to a child, you know, whatever, any kind of like physical or mental disability. Well, now what happens, right, like you, if you if you have to now, completely upend your life, in order to be a caregiver to this child that that requires, like full time attention, what kind of supports exist for you in that situation? Right. And to be quite frank, there’s not a lot of support. There’s not a lot of, you know, we don’t have the scaffolding to support caregivers in this country. It’s a massive, massive problem. And we’re actually just, you know, me and my, my, my two best friends and colleagues who, who I do Sackboy podcast with, we were having this conversation today, you know, it’s the the caregivers in Canada, are the largest non paid workforce in the country. And you know, that, that should be staggering. You know, that should be a stat that is really mind blowing to people. And it’s something that we don’t often think about, until it’s affecting us. But here’s the thing is that it’s affecting all of us.

Jessica 

I know, when you talk to people, you actually find out the real story isn’t everyone has a story of this. And that, you know, just as a another personal experience, my husband’s dad had Ms. You, unfortunately, passed away. But the only reason I think he got the care, because you it was pretty progressive, and he had to be in a facility. And the only reason I think he got the care that he did at that level that he did was because of his employer, he was working for the bus company, and they had really good benefits, disability benefits, and it covered him for years and years, years. But if he didn’t have that job and didn’t get those benefits, it’d be a very different situation.

Jeremie 

It’s funny that you mentioned that I went to when, you know, back in 2015, when it was like, What the frick am I going to do with my life? The one of the things that I thought it was like, I guess I’ll become a bus driver. You know, like, I love driving, I hear there’s great benefits are. And to be honest with you, you know, like I like my life now. And I think things are actually going quite well. But but there is this, there’s a small, small sliver of me that’s like that. That dream has not died yet. Being a bus driver someday. So who knows? Maybe that will be my backup if audio production just fails.

Jessica 

Backup. I feel like we always need bus drivers, though. You know, like, yeah, it’s just like you when you think about that. And you hear the stories of people is like, how did you make it work? You find out oh, they were only able to make it work because they had families support, like financial support. Or it’s Oh, the they were lucky, their employer had great benefits and covered them for this, this amount, all this kind of stuff. But what about the people that don’t have those situations? Like that is terrifying. And yeah, especially the caregivers, the amount of time even, even if it’s not that, you know, they’re it’s parents to a child, it could be you’re a child and your parent needs help. That’s definitely something that me and my husband think about often as our parents get older, is the support that they are going to need financially and and also there across the country. So what are we going to do we have to move back at certain point when things are shaky? We’ll see.

Jeremie 

Yeah, it’s, you know, I will say that conversations like this, in in the past have have always kind of left me feeling a little bit sort of pessimistic and kind of heavy, where it’s like, oh, it seems like we’re just all just swimming around in a broken system. And there’s not going to be a lot of change. But the one thing that I will say is that, you know, I’ve been I’ve been blessed with with being invited to a couple of conferences, especially over the last like couple of months. And there’s a lot of people out there that are that are making some huge huge waves in the world of the healthcare system within our country, especially pertaining to Do people like caregivers, and especially in the world of like pediatrics, and so, you know, as as, as I am typically an eternal pessimist I do to those two, you know, these two conference that I went to I’m all of a sudden I’m having this shift where I’m like, Oh, I’m actually feeling quite hopeful and quite optimistic about the future. So, so if you know, if you’re hearing this, and you’re thinking, Oh, God, damn, we’re all screwed.

Jessica 

It’s like, there are people that are behind the scenes we don’t know about that are doing things, they’re doing the work, they’re going to try to make it better. We just don’t see that we just see the problems. I’m curious. You know, at what point then, because I’m sure you talk about these things all day long on sick boy and you talk to guests? What inspired the podcast? And what are some of the things that you discuss? Because this is something that isn’t discussed, I feel like an open conversation, like people do not talk about healthy things. Like it is like to die did it uh, but it’s really just like money. It’s like we shouldn’t be ashamed to talk about we have to talk about it. Right? Because it’s interesting that people I’ve found out that Oh, I didn’t know you had that health issue, or I didn’t know you have chronic this and that like migraines, but you’re like, oh, that’s just a headache. You’re like, no, it’s debilitating.

Jeremie 

It’s yeah, there’s, there’s a real strong stigma and surrounding health. And I don’t think that that comes as a surprise to anyone. You know, where this all sort of began was at that, at that sort of confluence of, of realizing that I, I really screwed up with the way that I sort of viewed my life. So I you know, I guess for context, before I, before I get into that, one of the things that has really shaped me into the person that I am today, which is, I think one of the most like, one of the biggest gifts I’ve ever received in my life, is the fact that cystic fibrosis is a is a, you know, it’s a fatal disease. And so when I was 10, I read this pamphlet. So when I was 10, I actually didn’t know this. i To me, it CF was just like, you know, just like an everyday annoyance. I knew I was sick. You know, I knew I had CF, but I didn’t. I didn’t. I was never told that, that it’s actually a life shortening illness. And so when I was 10, I read this pamphlet. And it was like a pamphlet for my teachers, I think to give them a sort of sense of what it’s like to have a CF kid in your class. And the pamphlet in it, there was a sentence that said, the average life expectancy of someone living with CF is 30 years of age. And I remember a time just thinking like, what, like, oh, yeah, like, I’m sorry. I feel like my mom and dad would have told me this. But they didn’t. And the reason they didn’t was because they were told not to at the time, I guess that was like the the mode of thinking where it was like, oh, no, don’t tell them, they’ll find out and then they’ll come to you with questions. And so I did find out but I did not go to them with questions. They just kind of buried that down. But that moment really shifted the way that I ended up living the next, you know, 25 years of my life. I spent my entire life after 10. Living with this notion, where I was completely and utterly convinced that I was going to be dead by 30. And, and that sounds that sounds heavy. But I’ll tell you one thing. It was truly incredible. I mean, it, it forced me to meditate on mortality. And it guided me into this way of living. That was very much like, seize the day, because there is no tomorrow like you you have you have this time right now. In the present. The past, there’s no point in like focusing on that. And there’s not really much point in focusing too much on the future because there is not one. So it’s like, what can you do right now? And that’s the thing that led me to this idea of like, well, I like acting so I will become an actor. Worst financial decision I’ve ever made in my life, for sure. But but also it was it it led to, you know, a number of years where I really felt like I was so rich. Maybe not financially but like, in my heart I was I was living you were literally living so hard. You know, when when when the when my film career sort of seemingly tanked in a matter of like a month I had that I had that mentality of like, oh my God, you’ve you’ve, you’ve dedicated so much of your your time and your life to honing this craft that, again, relies on other people to give you the permission to do your thing. You know, as an actor, it’s like you can’t just you know, a musician can pick up their guitar and go play on the street corner or a painter can pick up the brush. shoot with a pencil and do their art and, you know, express themselves, wherever they are on a napkin, you know, in a restaurant, an actor, you know, it’s a bit you can’t really go down to the street corner, just start busting out a soliloquy. You could, but like, you don’t want to be that guy, right? So I was like, What do I do? Like, I am such a good person, and so right brain heavy. And maybe we’ll get into that and how that’s sort of shifted. And it’s especially with like, the way that I view money now, but I was like, Well, how do I, how do I express the side of myself? And so I ended up. You know, long story short, I saw Kevin Smith, famed Canadian director of Jay and Silent Bob and clerks, and many, many more amazing films. He was giving a talk. And I saw him in this talk. And one of the things that he said in this talk was, he was talking about podcasting, because he’s like a podcast mogul. The guy’s got, you know, he had his own network at the time. And this was like, before podcasting was even a household name, right? This is, this is before cereal. This is before, you know…

Jessica 

2013 2014 or so?

Jeremie 

Yeah. And so one of the things that he said that really stuck with me that night was, podcasting is the perfect form of creative expression. And the reason for that is because everybody in this room, likely has a cell phone. If you have a cell phone, and you have a thing that you are passionate about, you have the opportunity to create a podcast, let’s say your thing is, you know, your passion is knitting hats for kittens. And it’s the thing that you love more than anything. And it’s a pretty niche thing. But guess what, there’s guaranteed to be at least one other person in the world who also shares that passion for knitting hats for cats. And if you put that podcast out into the world, and that one other person tunes in, it doesn’t matter if it’s just one or if it’s 100,000, you have the ability to create this form of art that can connect with somebody else. And he said this, and I remember just like, all of a sudden being it’s like, I downloaded the information out of out of thin air, I went holy shit, I could, I could do this. I could start a podcast, and I could call it Sick Boy. And it could literally be about living life with illness. But touching on the the elements of that that are really funny, because there’s a lot of humor and a lot of laughter that is tied to hardship and struggle. Yeah, there’s nothing funny about CF. There’s nothing funny about, you know, terminal cancer. But I’ll tell you right now, from lived experience, there’s a lot of funny moments that come up in that particular situation. And so that was the the birth of the idea. I sat on it for a few months kind of workshop that with a couple of friends, some in healthcare, some not. And this all led to me and my now co hosts and business partners, Taylor McGilvery and Brian Stever, we were just hanging out at the Halifax central library, we were talking about, you know, creating something together. And so I said to them, I was like, Yeah, I got this idea for a podcast. And they said, All right, well, let’s do it right now. Like there’s a recording studio studio here in the library. Let’s rent it out and, and have a conversation. So we booked a recording studio, and for the very first episode, it was like, okay, Brian, until you guys can be the hosts, I’ll be the guest. And you ask all the questions that you’d ever want to ask, you know, your sick friend. Hmm. And that one recording was the first episode of the podcast and it just kind of steamrolled from there took on a life of its own very quickly. And fast forward. Now, nine years later, we’ve, you know, we’ve produced and published over 800 episodes, and we’ve spoken to people from across the world and we have a list of over 3000 people from around the world who applied to come on this show and sit down with three strangers and share their experience in living with illness. And it the, you know, this project that all stemmed from this one talk that I heard from Kevin Smith has now become my my life, it’s become my career, it’s become the thing that has given me purpose. And it’s also the thing that’s been paying my bills. And you know, not to say that there’s a ton of money in podcasting, but there’s a way there’s a way to get into that world where you know, it can be fruitful and it can be financially successful. And it’s only really been in the last couple of years where that you know, the the idea of financial success. And my work has started to kind of mesh together.

Jessica 

Because I bet being someone who you know, want to be an actor, you’re like, I’m gonna be starving this whole time. And that’s what I felt after film school like I’m never gonna have totally because you were told that, like don’t have high expectations, which is a terrible thing to hear, because then you don’t try or you just think well, why, you know, why bother? Yeah, this is the way. But I mean, I was right before this watching your amazing TED Talk. And you’re an amazing speaker, and you got you really do have, I mean, it does help that you have the natural ability of acting and stuff like that does help. Comes in handy those skills. But it’s amazing what you’ve been able to create with the podcast and your speaking and everything else that you’re doing. Because you’re, you really are Yeah, I just Yeah, I mean, we met and I’m like, I like this guy. This guy’s got some like, um, he’s just and I feel like lots of people are drawn to you, you’re just very real and won’t shy away from talking about things like just the idea of like talking to your sick friend and asking them questions. You know, how many people would love to be able to do that, but people feel so uncomfortable and then don’t and then no one’s talking about it, which is weird, because maybe we should be more open and just be more cognizant, and all that kind of stuff. Like, we need to be more open about these things instead of just brushing things under the rug? Totally.

Jeremie 

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it is a, you know, it’s, I think, I think it stems from, you know, 1000 different things, but I think one of the big parts is like, we’ve, especially in a western society, and especially as man Holy shit, like, you know, that’s a whole other layer you’re taught that, like vulnerability is, is this huge sign of weakness, and, you know, take 10 seconds to listen to Brene Brown speak. And it’s very evident very quickly, that Oh, no, vulnerability is actually a massive sign of strength.

Jessica 

Because you know, how hard it is to be vulnerable?

Jeremie 

Like, oh, yeah, so So that’s, you know, that’s, that’s what I do now. And, and it’s been, it’s been incredible. And I, you know, I love my work, and I love what I’m able to do. And I think it’s, I think that’s also kind of shaped me into this person that I that I am today, which I, you know, at the risk of sounding vain, like, I really love myself and love who I become. But, but to kind of to kind of dive a little bit deeper into my relationship with money.

Jessica 

Yeah, I was just gonna ask I’m, what, what kind of came to mind is, how does financial planning change for someone who knows that they have a shorter lifespan? Because most people that are like, I don’t have an illness have that kind of sore? I’m gonna live to, you know, the average is like, 85, or whatever. And so you’re like, that’s, you’re, like, stressed out, you’re like, oh, I need $2 million to retire. You know? And that that may or may not be your future, how does that change things for you?

Jeremie 

It changed things for me in a big way. Because like I said, from like, the age of 10, to the age of 30, I really lived with this, although, you know, although it was an incredible way of life, of living to like, squeeze out every, you know, second of life that I can. It also led to the the downfall, which was not planning for a future. You know, the idea of kids completely out of the question, really, you’re just like, No, yeah, it was like, you know, for me, it was even at 16 I remember having this, this thought where it was like, Okay, well, what, you know, I’m not gonna have it, I’ll never have a kid, why would I do that to a human, bring it bring a child into this world, only to have them grew up, you know, the majority of their life without a father. I had no interest in that. And, you know, I used to think that like, marriage was kind of out of the question, because it was like, well, who’s gonna want to marry a guy with a, you know, with like, less than 10 years to live? But, but I, you know, I ended up getting married, I got married, but But again, I got married in a very, like, impulsive. Way, right? I met this person I met, I met my, my now ex wife variety in university. And we were dating for two years, and I just, I was like, Hey, I’m gonna die. And I don’t have time will like, will you marry me? And I think she was like, I think Brady was like, oh, geez, like, you know, you’ve got what, like, seven years? That’s, yeah, I’ll take I’ll take like a, you know, a short term marriage.

Jessica 

Yeah, that’s one way. And you’re like, Oh, great. I really have to commend them.

Jeremie 

That’s like, by the time she shows up for her, it’s like, by the time you’re dead, I I’ve got plenty of time to find another, you know, another partner, from from 23 to 30. It was like, I mean, the idea of saving money was just like, what’s the point out the windows? What’s the point? Right? So but but let’s fast forward to, you know, when I’m 3233. There’s all these rumblings in Canada about this new medication for people with cystic fibrosis, and it’s called try CAFTA. And it’s this gene modulator. Essentially, you know, I won’t get into like the science behind it, but it’s not a cure to CF. Although It’s kind of it’s like the next best thing. So it’s not a drug that treats the symptoms of CF, rather, it treats at the source. So that inability to move chloride in and out of the cells is due to a genetic mutation. And that genetic mutation causes a protein in my body to be malformed. So this pill doesn’t genetically change me, but it changes that malformed protein to to be in the shape that it should be. And so now, my body actually does what a normal human’s body should do. Amazing, right, like huge win, and maybe like a step closer to a cure. But the other part that comes with this drug is the fact that you know, okay, so So to kind of really hammer home, the, the, the, the, you know, the, the grandiose pneus of this pill, when I, when I took the pill, I was like the lowest my lung function had ever been. This was in tooth November 2021. My lung function at the time of taking Tricopter was 50%. Two months later, January of 2022, my lung function was at 3%, which was the highest it had been in over a decade. Wow. And you know, that the drug is still quite new, but the way things are looking now with people who are on try CAFTA, it’s very, it’s very evident that the world of CF is going to see this massive shift where originally we were dealing with like a pediatric disease where people were often dying in their 20s, you know, even before their 30s We’re now going to start seeing people living with this disease, likely up to the time of 8085, right, it’s like, all of a sudden, my, my looming dark cloud of like, oh, deaths, right around the, you know, right around the corner. I you know what deaths actually go and forget you were I’m just gonna go down here and focus on these folks over here. And so now it’s like, oh, you actually actually have a life.

Jessica 

And now you need to plan for your future. And I didn’t do that. I didn’t do like, shoot the best time was do that in my 20s. Like, all the personal finance books said no.

Jeremie 

I didn’t start that until literally, to like a year and a half ago, where I went, Oh, no, like, I’ve got a future. And so now it’s like, oh, maybe I maybe I do want to have kids. And and maybe I do want to like start thinking about what does it mean to save for retirement? And so yeah, that has, that has been a real, real trippy, whole, you know, worldview shift. But to tie into all that, to make this even more complex and convoluted for myself, like I said earlier, I’m very right brain heavy, right? The right side of my brain is firing on all cylinders. It’s all creativity, and, you know, and like, like, physical movement, and, but there’s not a lot of, there’s not a lot of like, reason, and, and, and logic, it’s all impulsivity and, and creativity.

Jessica 

Those are not good when it comes to money.

Jeremie 

I’d say, Yeah, you know. And so one of the, you know, not to like tag this other thing on to my situation. But I, it turns out, I’ve also been sort of dealing with untreated ADHD. Yeah, throughout my whole life. And it’s funny, like I, you know, when I started to kind of clue into this, that this was an issue. I asked my mom, I was like, Hey, Mom, did you ever did you ever like, to teachers ever come to you at any point when I was growing up and say, like, hey, you know, Jer, you might want to get jarred tested for ADHD. And my mom goes, Oh, yeah. Like, every single teacher and I went, Oh, okay. And so like, what was your thought there? And she went, Oh, I just, you know, you’re just a hyper you were just a hyper boy. But like, that’s, that’s normal. And I was like, Oh, God, it would have might have been really helpful if you so so I, I, as an adult, you know, and this is very, very, very recent. I ended up you know, over the last two months, about a month and a half ago, two months ago, I fell into a pretty, like, intense depression. So I was diagnosed with clinical depression, diagnosed with ADHD.

Jessica 

Was this kind of during the time of COVID, I guess?

Jeremie 

No, no, this was literally this was literally like three months ago. Oh, yeah. Okay. And so this was actually this was like right before we had you as a sick boy. Okay, so I was just swimming in in really heavy depression and it was, it was manifesting and like in some some addiction behaviors, and so what we ended up doing was in If we decided to treat both the depression and the ADHD, but we would do it one step at a time, and the first step was alright, let’s let’s handle the ADHD. Let’s see if we can handle that. And maybe that will bring you to a place of clarity. So you can work on the depression. Yep. And so I started a prescription of Adderall. And I was probably about a week, a week and a half into my Adderall prescription before you came on sick boy, God, and crazy in that conversation that we had with you, you said something that really deeply stuck with me. And what I’m going to say here isn’t something it’s not some, you know, glorious, wild piece of of information.

Jessica 

No, that doesn’t sound like me.

Jeremie 

But it actually is when you can when you can comprehend it. And I don’t think I have the ability to comprehend it up until that moment, which you said, when it comes to dealing with finances. And when it comes to talking about money, you have to be able to remove your emotion from that equation. And because I have lived 35 years of my life as an impulsive, letting brain that’s it, I’m all emotion. Yeah, I run hot on emotion. And so I didn’t have a, I didn’t have an innate ability to think about or talk about money. So much. So in fact, that money was a money was a really detrimental aspect of my life, when it came to any element of my life, whether that be my interpersonal relationships, whether that be my own relationship with myself with, like, money, and me just did not mix. But when I was able to win, you know, I know that there’s, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s lots to be said, for medications. And, you know, there’s some people out there that that are that think, you know, the world is overprescribed when it comes to things like Adderall or stimulants and stuff and, and rightfully so that you’re probably right. But I’ll tell you right now, that that medication has fundamentally shifted my life in a huge way. And it actually allowed me to be able, and capable to step back from my emotions and look at something just with logic, just with reason. Yeah. And it has completely shifted my my worldview on finances and, you know, like, I’m swimming in debt, like I’ve just got I’ve just racked up debt from living like a friggin you know, just living fast in the fast lane. And, and I and I couldn’t look at that debt until, you know, actually literally the night the night we spent the day we spoke to you, I went home that night. Yeah, I got a copy of your, your budget spreadsheet budget spreadsheet for self employed and employed couples. Yeah. And I sat down with my partner. And we went through the whole thing. And, and I was like, This is it, this is great. My partner who’s typically like, you know, she’s pretty good with that stuff, I could start to see her getting really emotional about it. And I was going and I was having this, like, outer body experience going Holy shit, this is like, this is what you typically do. But somehow you’re not in that. And so now you now you have to, like now it’s your role to kind of help and be supportive and guide her in into this realm where you are. And it’s man, it has completely fundamentally just shifted everything about my life. And so firstly, I want to say thank you, for your for putting that little piece in my head. But also thank you for, you know, the work that you do it. When, you know, I think we spoke about this when you were a guest on our show, but like not only are we a society, that you know, where there’s a lot of us who are very right brained focused. We’re also a society where like, Ed, when we look at the education that we grew up with, and maybe it’s shifting, maybe it’s changed today. But you know, when I was in high school, there wasn’t a single ounce of talking about financial success or, or how do you even do your taxes, like, all of these things. And so the work that you do, I think, is just so vitally important because it’s like you’re teaching a generation of folks who just didn’t get that.

Jessica 

It’s interesting, because it’s like, I’m probably the opposite of you were because of a bunch of other things in my life. I’ve always been very rational, logical and non emotional, and I this year through my own healing journey have had to figure out the vulnerable emotional side because I always just locked that into a door with a key which has its own set of problems. It’s yeah, it’s such a great time I highly recommend everyone I’ll link to it in the show notes set to listen to episode I was such a great time talking with you guys because we yeah, we talked about everything under the sun and went deep and talked about you know, how your past and your childhood affected things. All of these things are involved. So even though I say, you know, take the emotion out of it to make good financial decisions, which is kind of true. That is, that is like, the ideal situation, but emotion will always try to get in, and that’s fine. You just need to, like recognize that and manage it. And just, you know, because even to this day, me and my husband have been doing the same thing, we have our monthly money meetings, sometimes, you know, it’s more just like put our numbers in and we don’t really talk about it, maybe we’ll talk about it next month, or what have you. He still hates doing it. We’ve been doing it for like seven years. And he’s because he is a creative use very emotional and stuff like that. And we have to have these conversations being like, your money is not your identity, you are you are more than your money, and it’s okay. And, you know, every time it was like, Hey, we filled out our net worth it’s, you know, better than last month, how do you feel he’s like, awful. Like, he’s Oh, he’s just like, not having a good time. And that’s, I think it’s important to talk about that it’s okay to not feel good about your money, but it’s important for you to do it anyway. Yeah, you know, just like anything in life, you want to take care of yourself in any way psychologically, you know, fitness and health, you got to it’s not going to be fun. And you have to do it anyway. It does get better, though. And it gets easier. You’re not just like, oh, this is the worst, you’re like, oh, so the less painful this is right.

Jeremie 

And like there’s something to be said for, you know, I mean, being comfortable in uncomfortable situations, is how we live in important, right? Like, that’s the thing that that allows us to grow. That’s how we grow. That’s how we learn. I also just want to say, I just want to clarify there, because I know that what I said was like, hey, like I got put on stimulants, and now I can focus on my money. I don’t think that I don’t think that, you know, I don’t think that Adderall is, you know, if you’re listening to this, and you’re like, Oh, I actually have always had a hard time with money. And I have a hard time removing removing the emotions. You actually don’t need a you know, a an ADHD medication to be able to do that.

Jessica 

You may not have ADHD. That’s right. Like that’s, that’s the important thing. Like, yeah, there’s a lot of research just show there’s Yeah, it’s people are being titled over diagnosed. With that said, yeah, don’t just go like gas for a prescription or something like that. seek some help to find out maybe it is something else, or maybe yeah, or maybe it’s just like, No, it’s just…

Jeremie 

Yeah, totally. The thing, the wonderful thing, when you make that realization, that it’s It’s simply about removing the emotions, even if you’re in a place where you’re like, Well, I just don’t seem like I have the ability have the capability to do that. There are really effective ways to be able to quiet the right brain and wake up the logical brain. And like, it’s very simple that, you know, if you don’t, and I know that this is people who probably hear this and roll their eyes, but like, there is so much to be said for a, a even even of sort of like low key meditation practice. You know?

Jessica 

Don’t I’m all I mean, I don’t do it. My husband’s all into it. He did it. 10 days. Yeah.

Jeremie 

Oh wow. How hard yeah.

Jessica 

It was bit of a life change. He came home wanting to go back to school, and now he’s in school, you know, but it was great. Yeah. But he’s all about like, he has always had anxiety and lots of things, emotional dysregulation, which is funny, because you would never know it because he just like it just buries it. But it’s like happening inside meditation has changed his life, it is the thing that he needs. So I highly recommend doing it. I am just terrible.

Jeremie 

Yeah, I mean, and it’s, I like to get Yeah, it’s even as easy as you know, if you’re, if you’re doing like monthly meeting monthly money, sort of like meeting sessions, whether it’s on your own or with your partner, it’s like, just set aside, if you you know, you’ve scheduled it in, it’s gonna happen on a Monday at 7pm, well, at 645, just go sit somewhere quiet. And just be present with your breath and your body and slow your breathing down, you know.

Jessica 

Or or there’s like lots of grounding techniques, if you feel those emotions rising, and you’re just like, ah, there’s so many ways just like Google grounding techniques that you can do to get yourself back into that mode of like, okay, we’re removing all of this baggage and all the things that I associate with money, like, I’m a piece of crap, or I’m a failure, did it? Let’s get rid of all of that. Because that doesn’t none of that’s true. That is just that’s not true. And let’s just like look at things logically. Because that is the only way you’re going to be able to like do the math and then do you know, actually activate whatever is in your your budget.

Jeremie 

It’s funny, it makes me think about like, approaching you and your money and sitting with it and whatever, you know, breaking down your budget or whatever it is, treat that the same way that you would treat a fight with your significant Yes. Right. And it’s like, if you look at the work that you know, that relationship therapists or you know, couples, coaches, all the work that they do it, it is this, you can take that same work and just apply it to your ability to work with money and it’s the same thing. I mean, it’s all based on emotional regulation. It’s all based on on really just like being present with The the, the shared reality and not the reality that you’ve built up in your head, you know? So So yeah, it’s it’s it’s man it’s it’s it’s an interesting place to be in right now because I just feel like I have this renewed sense of, of life that that I didn’t have before. And it’s really it is really exciting.

Jessica 

Well to kind of wrap things up, because we’re getting to time, what are some of the things that you have done? And what are some of the plans that you’ve put in place that, you know, you may not have put in place before?

Jeremie 

I mean, this is this, this is kind of a big one. But my so my partner and I were, we’re, we’re talking about having a child. And again, that’s not something that I ever thought I would say. And so with that comes, like some some, some sort of future monetary goals, have, you know, if we’re going to do this, the one thing that I would, I would like to be able to do before taking that step is just having control over the financial debt that I have found myself in, right. And so that debt is just built up from you know, it’s like, it’s credit card debt, it’s it’s its line of credit debt, it’s, you know, it’s past tax bullshit debt. It’s a mountain, it’s a mountain of debt. And prior to, you know, prior to this new newfound sense of, of removing emotions from money, I wouldn’t have been in a place to be able to even comprehend what that would look like. But now, you know, thanks to thanks to your budget spreadsheet, and thanks to removing the emotions. I can see like, oh, actually, this is tangible. And this could be this could be very well be doable within the next two years. And so, you know, two years from now, the, that’s the goal right now is like, okay, let’s, let’s have, let’s have a kid, let’s, let’s think about having a child and and let’s use that as our goal, to take control of our financial health. And so yeah, that’s, that’s where I’m at right now. It’s really exciting.

Jessica 

It’s really exciting. It’s really exciting. Well, I know. We could talk. I mean, I’ll probably have you back on the show. Because it’s such a great conversation. And it’s so important to have these conversations, but I know people can find more about what you talk about. On Sick Boy, tell me where people can find it. And some of the guests I know, You’ve had some really amazing guests over the past couple years. Yeah.

Jeremie 

So at Jeremy Saunders on Instagram, if you want to connect with me directly, at Sequoia podcast on all socials. And Sequoia podcast is like, you know, it’s wherever you find podcasts, you just look it up sick boy. But yeah, we’ve I mean, we’ve we’ve had the real, real fortunate life to be able to speak to a lot of really interesting and fascinating people. Most of the people we talk to are just your everyday, you know, normal average folks living in Canada who are experiencing illness. But we also speak to we do three episodes a week. So you know, we have episode we have a day specifically for for those folks. And we have a day specifically for folks under the umbrella of of sort of, you know, health care providers or professionals. So, you know, we’ve spoken to lots of really interesting people actually, we just recently did a live recording with Dr. Gabor Ma Tei, which that episode will be dropping soon. We had him on the show before but we got him, we somehow managed to get him out to a bar and do a live recording, which is an absolute hoot. And then and then Fridays, we do episodes where it’s just three of us, we talked about super weird and Wild Health crap from like, the history of health to what’s happening in the world today and, and upcoming things. So yeah, I mean, you know, feel free to check out the podcast and and if anybody has any questions or, you know, wants to connect or wants to come on the show, you know, if you’re listening to this, you’re like…

Jessica 

Oh, I’ve got a thing.

Jeremie 

Or if you you know, in 10 years you you get a thing. You can you can just go to support podcast.com and sign up to come on the show. We love hearing from folks from all over.

Jessica 

That’s amazing. Well, Jeremy was a pleasure. I know what I’m so excited for this episode. Say it’s such a great time on your show. Thank you so much for coming on. It was great. Thank you so much.